realskiers

OK B....my counterpoint...you stated: "B. Tipping to turn works on hyper sidecut skis, in more open places but DOES NOT work in real terrain, in real conditions, on real skis"

I believe that no matter what skis I'm on or what snow or terrain I'm turning...I use tipping motions to the outside edges of the skis...even feathered. High edge angles are best kept to groomed snow but the use of drifting or sideslips or whatever it takes to enter the next turn in off piste terrain still uses some transition to an edge and for me...that's tipping. You stated this pretty much in your first paragraph so I was a bit confused.

Tipping and maintaing edge angles is NOT easy for many to learn and once learned IS a mastery of at least that one component of skiing. But it is important that if a skier wants to be able to move off of groomed snow and into off piste conditions, they have to open their minds, watch and learn what those who have mastered to ski the big bumps, steeps, crud, pow etc....if they too want to be able to ski this terrain. Keeping an open mind and willing to try new ski skills is the only way that's going to happen.

Mike...certainly PMTS is NOT one dimensional and I didn't see B state that....I think that those of us who have experienced PMTS clinics realize there is a fantastic foundation to great skiing in that program...not just limited to edges, pole plants, free foot, hips...etc etc etc. But I DO believe that to ski off piste condtions, the discovery and use of additional tools are required.

For me my exposure to guys like Harb and Clendenin has been a truly remarkable experience and continues to open more of the beauty of skiing All Mountain.

G

I meant using ONLY tipping to turn and never adding any extra rotary input. Id be the first to admit that alot of people use rotary in very inappropriate manners. I am just saying there are places where an active guiding of the skis is a good thing. If at all possible I ski using as much edging as possible making turns happen though tipping and balancing against the ski. The thing is even on the most sidecut skis there will be places where you simply CAN NOT bend the ski anymore. I ski far from the hyper sidecut skis, I ski ski in the 19 to 35 meter sidecut range depending on what I am doing that day.

I think tipping to turn is great, just not as a only means.

I got to ski a bump run with some of the guys on this site last weekend. The only guy that was keeping up and not falling was using very skillfull guided rotary(with appropriate edge angle)  The guy who fell behind was using only tipping and was having a ton of trouble staying on a smooth line/ absorbing the terrain. The guy who could really ski was denying an use of active rotary which is a ashame because it was the real reason he was doing better.