Boot boards - soft vs. hard

[Svend]

I'm curious to know if anyone has noticed a difference in edge power, edge grip and control if a ski boot has a softer "freeride" style boot board, vs. the rigid hard boards found in boots designed for frontside skiing.  When I switched from my previous boots, the Lange Super Comp, which had hard plastic boot boards, to my Tecnica Infernos, which have a spongy firm rubber board, I noticed a decrease in edge grip in my skis.  Not just a little bit either -- it was significant.  I've always wondered why this was.  The boots have the same last width (98mm), the same snug fit in foot, instep, heel and cuff, and about the same flex index.  I know there are other variables involved, such as lateral cuff stiffness, alignment, position of foot over the inside edge, etc., but I can't help thinking that the softer boot board is soaking up some of that precious energy and power that should be getting to the skis edges.

Interested to hear some thoughts on this....

Cheers,
Svend

[jim-ratliff]

I've never had soft zeppa's, but I think I've heard the same thing about soft footbeds such as those made from cork? It makes sense, I think. If the material can be compressed then it isn't transmitting the force directly through to the shell.
Like you said, though, it's hard to imagine that such a noticeable difference was only the footbed. The soft footbed may have ben part of an overall damper/softer boot design.

[Svend]

I hear you Jim.  The Lange boot had some significant design differences, most notably that it placed the inside edge of the foot more over and in line with the inside edge of the ski.  The Tecnicas not so much, which put the foot more centered over the ski. 

In any case, it would be interesting to hear if changing the boot board to a rigid one could actually improve edge grip to the ski.

[jim-ratliff]

Lange's were (not sure if they still are) what are sometimes called rotary boots.  As the boot flexes, the boot's hinge alignment forces/rotates your knee to the inside.  This would probably contribute more to the feeling of having "more edge" than the difference in the boot board(Zeppa to Gary)

Other than quite a bit of "forefoot varus" I have a very neutral alignment.  When I was last looking at boots, I was trying on a Lange and a Head and checking alignment.  You know, the routine where you stand on the platform and they use a framing square to locate the center of mass of the knee when upright and when flexed.  With the Head boots, I tracked straight forward.  With the Lange's I tracked 1 degree to the inside.

It was amazing to me (but not totally surprising) that they saw that as a Jim alignment problem rather than a boot difference, even though the difference seemed pretty obvious to me.  But I should also confess that I wasn't really interested in the Lange boots, I've got too much "rotary" in my turns already without the boot adding to it.  I was just curious.

Note that I'm not making a judgement between the different brands, I just find all of the little subtleties very interesting.

[HeluvaSkier]

This has little to do with the boot board and more to do with boot design. Langes are usually very laterally stiff - known for it actually - especially the current generation. Technicas may appear to be laterally stiff, but the direction that the leg tracks when flexing them is commonly inside, which de-edges the ski.

[jim-ratliff]

Helluva:
What would you say of my experience with my knee tracking to the inside with the Lange's.  Is that the same as what you are describing with the Technica's, or am I being too simplistic?
The knee tracking to the inside is separate from the lateral stiffness of the boot, right?
Jim

[Svend]

This has little to do with the boot board and more to do with boot design. Langes are usually very laterally stiff - known for it actually - especially the current generation. Technicas may appear to be laterally stiff, but the direction that the leg tracks when flexing them is commonly inside, which de-edges the ski.

Oh boy! Wish you hadn't told me that.  Makes me want to go boot shopping again.   

Actually, not really, as I rather like the Tecnicas for other reasons.  Although I do miss the fantastic edge grip that my Langes gave me, the Tecnicas are better in several other respects, that overall I'm much happier in those.  Cuff fit, alignment (perfect right out of the box), progressive smooth flex, longer flex range. and a few other things, are all better in the Tecnicas.  At some point I would like to try the new Lange RS/RX series, as they look like a vast improvement over the ones I had, but for now I'm content.  But....just out of curiosity, I will check the alignment and see if the tracking changes as I flex forward.  You've got me intrigued now.... 

Correction to my first post:  I had the Lange Comp Pro, 120 flex; not the Super Comp, which had a 140 flex.