Skiing style = ski length?

[Gary]

Over the years of trial and error, cash in and cash out, I've been able to totally throw out the ski shop wisdom when it comes to ski length and find what works for me.

What I've found is that using ski skills that allow me to ski centered, I don't need a lot of length to make a ski perform. Example was 2 years ago I purchased the 170 length Head SS after sking on Ron's 170's and without hesitation, passed on my 170 RX8's to my son. I fell in love with the SuperShape after the first 2 turns,? (look out Jim, same skis and it could happen to you).

Ok so 30 days later, I was out to Deer Valley and just brought my Watea 84's cause they were calling for big snows that never showed. So....I rented a pair of SS and decided for giggles to go to the 165 length. Holy Batman...I was totally blown away on how much better I felt they performed for me. I felt so much in control on them that I was compelled to sell my 170's and buy a pair of 165 's when I got home. Not a bit of hesitation existed.

That brings me to my point....with all the hype about "not going too short or these skis ski short, or for your size you gotta go longer."Given the quality and versatility of skis out there, don't be afraid to demo down 1 shorter length. You maybe pleasantly surprised how much more in control you feel AND the spike you get in the fun factor department.

Best,
Gary

? after action report...subsiquent ly, I had the binding moved forward one mounting position on the 165 SS and so far to date....for me, best ski I've ever owned!?

[Glenn]

Since I'm somewhat of an old school skier...178's still seem "short" for me. I haven't skied on that length since I was in Junior high. 

But, I'd certainly be willing to test out some shorter skis for ha-ha's. That's really intersting that you were able to ski just fine on 165's. Again, being the type of skier that I am, I'd be worried about stability on a ski that short.

[jim-ratliff]

Since I'm somewhat of an old school skier...178's still seem "short" for me. I haven't skied on that length since I was in Junior high.?

Glenn:? What you don't realize is that one of the major advantages of shorter skis is less length.? ?? Less length means MUCH less stress on the knees when doing a snow plow, and this is especially important as we begin to age.? So what 59 year old Gary may be saying is that the SnowPlow (aka Pizza to younger skiers) is much easier on his legs on 165cm SuperShapes than on 170cm SuperShapes??? Wadda ya think?

I await responses with considerable anticipation, BTW.? Will it be Ron defending Gary's skiing first, or will Gary's creative juices rise to the occasion with a terse and salty riposte?? Readers, stay tuned!!

Wikipedia -- In fencing, the riposte (French for retort) is an offensive action with the intent of hitting one's opponent, made by the fencer who has just parried an attack.
In everyday language, a riposte describes a quick and witty reply to an argument or an insult. It is synonymous with a retort.


On a more serious note, in one of his RealSkiers articles Peter said something similar; that he often finds more difference in different lengths of the same ski than he notices is different skis/manufacturers of the same length.

[Ron]

Glenn, how tall and what's your weight? ?Just how fast do you ski?

gary is like 5' 8" and 155ish, so a cheater SL ski (this is not a bad thing) like a 165 SS is perfect for a carver ski. I am 6' 170 (now) and I ski on 170's front side and my Watea94s are 178's. ?Stability? My "fast" skiing is some where around 40 mph, It's pretty fast but no where near many others, I have not seen a stability issue with my Dynastar LTD's (172), Supershapes (170) and wateas 84's (176).

I have to agree that a good centered stance is paramount. Lenght becomes more of an issue at high speeds (real fast skiersm, not hackers like me)in powder, crud and heavy stuff for improved fore/aft and float. The other factor to always consider is the running lenght of the ski. Twin tips, take 8mm off the lenght, turned up tail, 2-4mm. If you are in doubt, take a flat-tail ski, place it on a flat floor, take the ski you are not sure of, line the two points of each tip where the ski starts to make contact with the floor, then go look at the tail, see where the two tails make contact. You can get a quick idea of just how much less running surface there is on the turned or twin-tip. You may be very surprised. So when you hear of guys skiing a 192 Watea101, keep in mind its really about a 183-185 ski.

try this out on your own skis, you may be surprised by the differences even in a 170 vs. 175 ski.

[midwif]

Glenn:? What you don't realize is that one of the major advantages of shorter skis is less length.? ?? Less length means MUCH less stress on the knees when doing a snow plow, and this is especially important as we begin to age.? So what 59 year old Gary may be saying is that the SnowPlow (aka Pizza to younger skiers) is much easier on his legs on 165cm SuperShapes than on 170cm SuperShapes??? Wadda ya think?

Jim
Can you find the wikipedia definition of THREAD HIJACK???
Gary starts a perfectly respectable new thread or serious import and you IMMEDIATELY try to derail the conversation.
FOR SHAME!

Now, just to be clear, Gary does the most AMAZING snow plow EVER! Gracefully knock kneed, a fine spray of snow coming off the bow end of his perfectly triangular aligned skis.

Back to our regularly schedule program.

[Gary]

Jim....your foil has pierced my armor....I take my last literay breath and fall to mother earth.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I awaken from your nightmare armed with wit and a pittance of humor and strike at the heart of the beast which has so ferociously attacked my honor. Snow plow on my legs...eek.....and. ....double eek....I have a bar of soap with your name on it young Jim!

Glenn...I really have not found any issue with the loss of speed or stability and I can open them babies up pretty good. I really didn't give any thought to less length easier on the legs....since I started skiing in 1986 where 195 was the length ski I cruised on. AND since I presently ski on younger legs than my age portray's, I must say that the shorter ski and I'm only talking one length shorter, really does offer some upsides to maneuverability without out loss of stability due to the inherent quality of the ski. So in your case skiing a 178 length....you might try the same ski if they have a say 170 length and see if you reap any benefits from the trial. AND Jim....you too might find a mountain of benefits from a 171 length in the IM178....could make for an interesting demo experience....more maneuverable, quicker edge to edge....and maybe just maybe, giving up some 40mph straight line stability.

And there you have it Jim....please snort my retort!

Ron...5'8 and 1/2 inch please. Ron....hmmm....I seem to remember a gate crashing event where I was flat out on a cat track on my Watea 84's and this blurr went by me throgh an orange fence, disappearing into Valhalla....sir, you can ski fast whether it's fence busting or GS turns cruising. You ski lengths certainly have not deterred your need for speed....well except for that orange stripe permanently smeared into your ski jacket.

So....don't be fooled by the "long ski scam".....todays gear is just awesome and there's really no need to associate length and machismo ?....well certainly not when it comes to ski lengths.

Best,
G

[Gary]

Oh Lynn as I quickly extinguish one fire, another erupts...

Gosh...being accosted twice on the same post...makes me want to tinkle on Ron's skis again!

Yeah Jim and what's up with derailing the thread....let's offer some serious and technological insight or just fake it, causes it's always cool to have the Yang when someone offered up the Ying!

And as far as my gracefull snow plow Missy Lynn....I am considering my tuning debt offered to be paid in full....spray coming off the bow end of ......now I've got to buy a bar of "Girly" soap with your name on it.

I REALLY can't wait till RSIII!

 ? Gary? ?

[Ron]

Oh this is fun! oh mr. 5' 8.55678" I think that's much more accurate.

I really don't the subject to come derailed here. It's a good one and the actual measurement of running length although completly tech-geek, is really cool to look at.

Orange trail, well, yes, this is what happens when you are skiing short radius turns on a cat track on the first day of skiing 94mm waisted skis    Yes, that was an awesome crash.

Gary does need to get out of the pizza fries thing this season, I for one, won't cover for him anymore,,,,,

[jim-ratliff]

Lynn:

As a matter of fact, and a bit to my surprise, I CAN find the definition of thread hijacking in Wikipedia.  And of Trolling, also to my surprise.

Email
.... not pertinent to this discusssion

Internet Forums
Thread hijacking in internet forum communication is the act of steering a discussion off-topic by discussing a subject entirely unrelated to the subject at hand.

While this can be an intentional act of trolling, it is often accidental - caused by participants in the discussion responding to a throwaway remark, thus taking the thread off at a tangent to the original subject matter. The results often provoke a feeling of resentment from the author of the original post.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_hijacking"

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]

[Ron]

He just demonstrated his definition.....

[jim-ratliff]

He just demonstrated his definition.....

And now, humbled and humiliated, beaten and bruised, I offer to clean up all of the offending posts and return this thread to the topic introduced by Gary as soon as I get concurrence from all involved.  I remember once last year when I tried to "clean things up" and the sky came crashing down about my head and shoulders (and maybe even some other body parts).  I don't think Michael ever forgave me.

My apologies to all.  We moved offices two weekends back, I had son's wedding last weekend, and things are finally sort of returning to some degree of normalcy (other than the piles of papers still on my office floor).

[Gary]

Hmmm...Ron...
Your knowledge of my exact height and as it so happens, my phone number is eerie...

And hard as I tried to keep the tech geek talk out of the threads contents you have again derailed my primary mission....it's about feel....oh Wise of the Mass....(keeheeee)

As far as first day on those 94's...Me thinks you forgot to read the instructions and to locate the airbrakes....Now as far as those Pizza Fries...those would appear to be your favorite food in the bumps..but hey...you know fries lead to pies and good pies lead to yard sales ....yep...you've had some great ones.... ( oh wowzer....I'm just on a roll)...I can't stand myself!

Whose next...bring it!

So, in closing, when we get out to demo this season...set your preconceived notions aside about ski lengths...think one length shorter...you can always head back to the demo hut and go bigger!

Best,
Gary

[Ron]

nicely done

[Gary]

Jim...I think I saw your picture up on the wall in the post office...

Somehting to do about about trolling.....hmmmm

Not sure...but the guy really looked alot like you and was holding a pair of Head 178's.

How we really don't know those close to us.....

Best,
G

[Glenn]

LOL! A great thread! I'll keep my eyes open for Gary snow plowing this season. 

I'm 5-10...about 165 +/- depending on weekly beer intake. 

When I ski with my wife, a moderate pace. If I take a solo run, I tend to crank out some decent speed. It helps clear out the cobwebs.