Jim,
Thanks for permitting us to share in your ski selection decision. JB is quite correct in stating you have every right to buy and ski whatever model you wish. One value of this forum is that you can ask for the input of others, and, it's perfectly ok to say "this is what I'm doing and thanks for the thinking". Hey, consider buying Ullr's with an adjustable for length binding so I can try them when the day comes we ski out west. My Kastle 88's are adjustable so we can swap easily.
Just another thought about tree skiing. Each needs to find a technique that works in trees that is bulletproof as your body looses in a collision with said tree. My experience is this means spending days in light woods trying to re-figure it out. Nothing is magic, but, you already know that.
It's an intriguing ski. Hmmm, another Obama ski capable of producing "change we can believe in"
??
Mike:
You going to get brushed a little bit by Hurricane Earl???
Actually, the thanks is to ALL of you, and especially to JBotti who started it all. I hadn't even looked at SkiLogik reviews.?
? I always over-think things
a little bit (or so I've been told) and it has been a lot of fun doing that interactively here on the forum at a time when there wasn't much other skiing talk going on. And the fact that this indirectly led to Lynn gettting new boots that she certainly needed is just a little extra frosting on the cake (thank you PhilPug).?
I would be glad to bring the Ullr's Chariot to Elk so that everyone could try them in the worst possible conditions for such a ski, and I am definitely leaning towards the PowerRail binding setup?? ?
On a completely different note, I wish everyone a
completely wonderful holiday weekend.? Most of the weather here looks to be awesome, Lynn is going to get overnight lows in the 40's for the first time this season; winter gradually approacheth.
The only real question is who will pull the trigger first!! I hate to say this but I would put your money on me. I know I can demo them in November at Loveleand but it will be on groomed terrain and the coverage off piste will be so poor that I won't take them in and detsroy even someone elses demo skis. Hence, I won't really get a good test on these until I tale them ouut in MT on a powder day. Unlike Jim, I know I won't take the Chariots unless it's soft, fresh, and deep!! Havimg said that, I certainly would be happy to have Jim have the honors here. I will post as soon as I pull the trigger and Jim hopefully you will do the same.
I would really suggest demoing these frist! The dims are a little carzy, I have a concern for these in broken and crud being a little hooky with way too much sidecut. defintiely not a powder ski, not sure where they really fit. May be fun on soft groomers I guess. demo first..... resale on these is going to be difficult. lots of very good 100 +/- skis out there already. Jim, not sure if a mid 90's ski isn't a better choice for you. Watea 94, kastle 94, Sultan 94 and some others out there. More traditional design some have a early rise tip. If you are looking for versitility, frontside resort powder lasts about 2 hours, then it's broken and piled,. just keep that in mind. Kastle mx98 was a blast to ski and very versitile.
Mike:
You going to get brushed a little bit by Hurricane Earl???
On a completely different note, I wish everyone a completely wonderful holiday weekend.? Most of the weather here looks to be awesome, Lynn is going to get overnight lows in the 40's for the first time this season; winter gradually approacheth.
Jim,
Brushed, now there's a Harald term. Far better to be brushed by a hurricane than to have one carve right through!
It's a great morn down here today, sunny and calm. Will probably do some beach time this afternoon. Few people can beach as well as my wife.
Present Earl track is promising as it will be well to the east. If not, we will be long gone! 40 mph winds and an inch of rain projected.
JB - Which would you prefer, hurricanes or earth quakes? Humbug and go away to both!
All have a great Labor Day.
A minor tree skiing story. 4 years ago I returned to Breckenridge with some friends who are tree skiers. We skied the Outback chair area of Keystone with great glades. Not real steep, not real tight, not real bumped up. It took me 3 days to figure it out, but, it's just so great when it happens. Stopping in the glades and looking around is like being in a great cathedral of nature. I felt very insignificant and unworthy.
I think in broken snow these will be great. I really use sidecut alot in crud and chop. Used properly a wide ski with sidecut can be a great tool and be much easier on the legs than pushuing tails to tighten the turn. But I also agree that this is a design that I have not seen before and you are right that it could be funky. I also agree that they may not be easy skis to sell. The one thing we do have is Peter's review and according to Jim Peter has skied these himself and raves about them. I will probably wiat to demo in November. Thanks for the comments.
Of course if I can't wait and end up buying a pair without demoing and I end up not loving them, it won't be the first time for that either!! I think I will wait.
I think this is the question and you can answer it fior us. How do the shamans hold up in Pow, chop and Crud. These skis take a page from the Shamans with fat tips, lots of sidecut and a short TR. The 173 Shaman has the same TR as the 178 chariot. Max 501 on the PMTS forum raves about his shamans because he can use the sidecut in crud and chop and bumps off piste, and with the fat tips the ski floats as well in the fluffy stuff. If the Shamans ski well in 3d conditions so should the chariots.
Now I will say that I have had skis with carbon Fiber abd fiberglass. Both the lotus 138 and the PM Gear Lhasa Pow had some of both. In general I felt the ski were a little too light and lacked some ofthe bulldozer characteristics that I prefer in a bomber powder ski. ?The Lhasa Pow was IMO especially lacking in true torsional rigidity. That is by biggest concern with CF and Fiberglass skis that have no metal. Yeah, I best demo these!!
Ron walk us through your thoughts on the Shamans.
Personally I always kind of liked Hurricane threats that we had growing up on the east coast. I can say this because In NY we never really had a devatstaing Hurricane ht directlly. I remember simming down my block one day because it had rained so hard. As a kid that was really fun!! Earthquakes last about ten seconds and in most instances there is not much damage. Not sure I want to be around for a big one!!
Ron:
Thanks for the words of caution, and good points, and something to ponder on. ?I still remember that when I bought the Watea 84 I was considering the 94 as well and you and Gary (correctly) indicated that it was stiffer and not as fun and that the 84 was a better ski for me. ?I appreciated that, because I had made a similar mistake with the Head iM77 at a time in the past. ?And I have become a better skier, so maybe the fact that none of the three you mentioned has the trusty green icon is as much of a concern. ?
However, impressed by the physical appearance and intrigued by the versatility I remain and will most likely buy. ?But I will remember and do appreciate the honest advice.
John:? Can't resist.? Is that the reason you are still riding that metal race bike, because you don't get the torsional rigidity from Carbon Fiber.
Mike: I was forced to evacuate from Oak Island down in North Carolina once (south of Wilmington, north of Myrtle Beach).? The island got devastated, lost almost every house on the front row (and half of the beach itself).? I have been back since then, but they still haven't completely recovered and that's been 6 or more years.
And John makes a good point.
Often we learn more from our mistakes than our successes, and/or our mistakes lead to subsequent successes.
Shamans are a fun and very powerful ski,? very floaty for thier shape I don't care for them on groomers and I definitely didn't like them in the bumps. I think the 160 tip takes a little to get used to but its great in the powder and broken (but you have to watch it in the broken and crud!) its very stiff and I prefer more flex in the tip. I don't make as many SR turns as you guys and tend to be more in the trees and other areas and not in the open so i will use the ski differently given the need.? No need to push the tails unless you are trying to ski beneath the TR of the ski, then you have to brush or drift or scarve anyway. The extra Sidecut becomes an issue when skiing in variable chopped crap and skiing more straight or wide turns at some speed, it's just the dynamics of the ski. Again, ski what you like the way you like. For me, I am going to the 88's for my everyday this season unless its fresh or leftover. Simply an amazing ski, highly adaptable, uber stable and you can really work it as needed. Even manky chop was a breeze on them.? After skiing them in Chile in the absolute worst conditions refreeze, suncupped, coral, rotten mank and bullet proof in the AM, they were life savers! I love these skis.
Did you see the TR I posted on Epic for Chile?
http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/95541/valle-nevado-august-26-epic-tag-picsif you are on FB
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000226789241#!/photo.php?pid=505113&id=100000226789241&ref=fbx_album
Jim, I do own several carbon fiber bikes. I'm not sure the ski manufacturers have figured out how to use it well yet. If it was truly superior to metal, you would see it in race skis and this is not the case. The big race ski companies have the money, the R&D people and the resources to put it in all their race skis. Clearly it does not perfrom as well as metal at high speeds when the skis are being torqued to their max. In cycling clearly Carbon Fiber is lighter and as torsionally stiff as is needed on a bike. Not sure the forces are anywhere near what occurs on a ski in a GS course.
Lightness sounds great. It's epecially nice when you are carrying and hiking. What is unclear is whether light skis can perform in high torque environments anywhere near as well as heavier skis. On a bike especially ascending, weight is everything. Last I checked when you are skiing you are always headed downhill. Weight is actually your friend (if you like going fast!!).
I don't think the analogy with bikes holds up that well with regard to carbon fiber and skis.
Of course some people like the way carbon fiber skis feel because they feel light. I don't think they perform as well at speed and are not as torsionally stiff no matter what DPS, PM Gear or Dave at ski logic say in their marketing material.
not been on any CF's but I do like the heavier more solid feel of the MX line for instance or Icelantics (althogh they aren't heavy)
Lightness sounds great. It's epecially nice when you are carrying and hiking. What is unclear is whether light skis can perform in high torque environments anywhere near as well as heavier skis. On a bike especially ascending, weight is everything. Last I checked when you are skiing you are always headed downhill. Weight is actually your friend (if you like going fast!!).
I don't think the analogy with bikes holds up that well with regard to carbon fiber and skis.
I agree, there is no comparison with the value of carbon bikes going uphill and carbon in skis for going downhill. Was just pulling your chain a bit.
hmmm,,, My CF Ibis..... read on
http://www.ibiscycles.com/tech/
LOL.?
OK, allow me to fall on my sword.? I was speaking strictly from a road bike perspective and for me wanting less weight is mostly an issue going UPHILL.? Going downhill, I wouldn't mind having a 50 pound pack on my back cause it gives me more speed.? But you have a VERY good point in that I used the word bicycles rather than specifying road bikes without even knowing or considering that there may be performance CF advantages?going downhill on "off-road" bikes.