-
This is another sad event for the ski community. Not sure why so many continue to take such risks. Evidently the snowpack was quite dangerous and the avalanche risk was "considerable". Still holds the record for biggest huck at 255 feet. I skied a run with him last winter in Montana. Super nice guy!
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/249171/20111114/pro-skier-jamie-pierre-dead-utah-avalanche.htm -
-
Not sure why so many continue to take such risks.
John, I don't follow extreme skiing very much, but it's pretty hard not to take in some of what's going on in that segment of the industry, because it's so prevalent in all the ski media. Even in mainstream resort-focused magazines like Ski, and our equivalent up here, Ski Canada, you see photo after photo of backcountry big mountain skiing, cliff jumps, super-steep chutes, tight trees, helicopter drops....the imagery is everywhere and impossible to avoid. Then there is the advertiser's obsession with "ski celebrities", the great majority of which are twenty-something freeriders -- you don't see too many ads selling goggles or gaudy-coloured freeride boots featuring Ligety or Miller, do you? If the best that WC superstar Vonn can do in Ski Magazine is promote ski tubes, then you see how this industry is skewed. Add to that all the sponsorship money being focused on extreme skiing, you get an industry that is a pressure cooker for guys like Pierre, McConkey, etc., to take greater and greater risks just to get noticed and stay on top.
My point is that I think the industry has to take a lot of responsibility for this behavior. They have created an environment where extreme risk-taking is promoted and expected, with the end goal of selling product and gaining market share. And, the young skiers with dreams of cashing in just by doing a sport they love, fall into the whirlpool, chase the big bucks, and then far too many of them push the envelope. They take one risk too many without considering their own safety or mortality, and pay the ultimate price.
I wonder what other professional sport or industry would tolerate this? Pro football? Hockey? I honestly can't think of one. World Cup skiing? Possibly....but even they have made progress in way of safety, although still have a long way to go, and seem to regress at times. But at least there is a whole army of support and aid at a World Cup race, to treat and whisk away an injured skier. No such backup on an Alaska mountain.
-
-
I've an old tee shirt that reads:
Skiing is a dance with a mountain, and,
the mountain always leads.
I feel very small in mountains. The road up Little Cottonwood Canyon is awesome...in the literal sense, as the steepness just dominates. I seem to remember Alta/Snowbird called the avalanche capital's of America. I can understand the lust to get out and ski powder after a long summer. But, damn, bring your brain.
My thoughts go out to his family who has to pick up the pieces. I can't find it in me to glorify someone who had to have the longest huck.
-
-
My thoughts go out to his family who has to pick up the pieces.
Right you are, Mike. It is a tragedy, and for far more than just the skier who perished. Very sad. Hope I didn't sound too cold and cynical in my previous post, but I find reprehensible the whole culture that would compel people to take such risks. Granted, the skiers themselves have to take a lot of responsibility for their own actions -- no one is forcing them off the cliffs -- but thoughts of glory, respect, admiration, recognition, and money are strong things to resist.
Enough said.....
-
-
John, I don't follow extreme skiing very much, but it's pretty hard not to take in some of what's going on in that segment of the industry, because it's so prevalent in all the ski media. Even in mainstream resort-focused magazines like Ski, and our equivalent up here, Ski Canada, you see photo after photo of backcountry big mountain skiing, cliff jumps, super-steep chutes, tight trees, helicopter drops....the imagery is everywhere and impossible to avoid. Then there is the advertiser's obsession with "ski celebrities", the great majority of which are twenty-something freeriders -- you don't see too many ads selling goggles or gaudy-coloured freeride boots featuring Ligety or Miller, do you? If the best that WC superstar Vonn can do in Ski Magazine is promote ski tubes, then you see how this industry is skewed. Add to that all the sponsorship money being focused on extreme skiing, you get an industry that is a pressure cooker for guys like Pierre, McConkey, etc., to take greater and greater risks just to get noticed and stay on top.
My point is that I think the industry has to take a lot of responsibility for this behavior. They have created an environment where extreme risk-taking is promoted and expected, with the end goal of selling product and gaining market share. And, the young skiers with dreams of cashing in just by doing a sport they love, fall into the whirlpool, chase the big bucks, and then far too many of them push the envelope. They take one risk too many without considering their own safety or mortality, and pay the ultimate price.
I wonder what other professional sport or industry would tolerate this? Pro football? Hockey? I honestly can't think of one. World Cup skiing? Possibly....but even they have made progress in way of safety, although still have a long way to go, and seem to regress at times. But at least there is a whole army of support and aid at a World Cup race, to treat and whisk away an injured skier. No such backup on an Alaska mountain.
I don't buy it, there is no analogy between franchise sports and guys freeskiing. None. Now, maybe world cup safety standards (which do exist) is a fair comparison (they do mandate helmets, and now long radii skis). You can point to the 'free skiing' competitions, but most film stars don't compete, and honestly, they don't have a high rate of injury at the events. Doug Coombs basically invented the competitive aspect of freeskiing, but died while guiding (and not hucking, he fell in a crevasse..same risk every mountain climber assumes) not competing.
I think of Freeskiing (and the industry that benefits from it) is more akin to Mountain Climbing, Rock Climbing, Big wave surfing. It's extreme, full of risks, it sometimes takes the lives of it's strongest practitioners, but those guys and gals think the risk is worth it. I never fall into the trap of thinking their deaths are 'tragic' nor do I exonerate foolishness by saying 'they did what they loved.' But, I have no problem with ski manufacturers paying them to hawk their equipment, and I do find much of what they ski impressive, awe-inspiring and fun to watch.
You think Jamie Pierre or McConkey pursued risk taking sports because they were hypnotized by Ski Industry advertising?
Should the manufacturers of climbing ropes prevent people from attempting to climb K2 because the risk is great? The Opening cover advertisement in SKI MAGAZINE is a Rolex ad with Ed Viesturs. Is Rolex, Ed Viesturs, or Ski Mag responsible for anyone who dies ascending Everest (and yes, even those who choose to summit without O2 like Viesturs)?
Should Reinhold Messner (the greatest alpinist ever and my vote for greatest athlete ever) not get sponsorship deals because he has built a reputation tackling perilous ascents? Had enough of Laird Hamilton (in my next life I want to come back as legendary big wave surfer. It way, way, cooler than even the coolest skiing!)?
I find the hand wringing over the prevalence of ski film stars in ski advertising misplaced. If you really want to make the ski industry safer and limit the number of deaths and serious injuries-the best thing that could be done is make it illegal to serve alcohol (or consume alcohol) while the ski area is open and strictly enforce it. Period. Allow no alcohol advertising in Ski Mags (and did Southern Comfort purchase Ski Mag this month?), or Ski Magazine reviews of great Hard ciders, or Budweiser sponsoring a traveling Freestyle event with beer tents set up at the events. None of it. If you ski at an area with an open bar, I can't take your safety concerns about ski industry using extreme athletes in advertising seriously. Because that jeopardizes your safety more than Sage cattabriga in a Rossi advertisement.
And, to your comments..Lindsey may have had only one ad in Ski Mag...but ski **** stars collectively had ZERO adds. All shots of skiing are unnamed ski models on fairly tame resort terrain (in ads for those resorts). I realize POWDER magazine would be different. Furthermore-Lindsey, Bode and Julia Mancuso are making it onto cereal boxes and enjoy a general face recognition in the USA that no extreme skier can even come close to matching. Not Sage, Not Jeremy, No One.
And, not every non racer who enjoys ski industry cache at the moment is known for extreme derring do. Chris Davenport is as Hot as Anybody, but it is his mountaineering skills, and endurance abilities that are on sale as much as his skiing (which is excellent, but not in anyway 'Extreme' ...no backflips into rocky chutes for Chris!). And I think, as a model for would be Backcountry and Slack country hopefuls, Davenport is excellent. He's all about the training, the effort and the milestone-based adventure--and for most aspiring experts in the USA, he is more emblematic of what they'd really like to aspire to than any world cup racer. And those aspirations are not delusional or unattainable.
Then there are all the Park and Pipe guys and gals--a whole other group that gets more face time than anyone except for Vonn--though they may do extreme things, it's primarily pursued in a very controlled setting (in resort based terrain parks) and honestly, you hear of very few deaths. Lots of broken bones and contusions, but not a lot of guys cashing it in (in fact, I can't think of any name guys buying it in the Park... though, I wouldn't doubt it has happened.
I'm sorry for the lengthy response, but I've heard this complaint come up before in other forums and it is often coupled with a similar decrying of new ski designs as well. And I just don't buy it.
-
-
This is going to come off as mean, but I would rather tell the truth than some lie just because the guy died. I am sure I am the only person who knew him and he was never my friend because of his personality.
Jamie Pierre was demeaning and inconsiderate to alot of peopl, and was one of the worst offenders of perpetuating the attitude of "I am better than you" in that canyon. He also was very "religious" and would tell people all the time that god was protecting him.
This year there was any early october snowfall than a large stretch of dry, letting the snow rot on northfaces where it remained. This past weekend there was 2-3 feet of heavy wet snow that was unable to stick to any surface that was any bit steep. I have skied the run that Jamie Pierre died on 100s of time, the pitch ranges from 35-50 degrees. Even when its open and supposedly controlled, pockets of snow can still slide on that run. Jamie Pierre never wore a helmet. He actually made fun of my helmet on chairlift once. I told him someday he wish he would have one. Brain drama was part of his cause of death. He was also carrying nothing for an avalanche rescue, not it would matter in this case because it was only a partial burial its the trama of being rung though the rocks on a very thin coverage that killed him.
So basically he ignored warning signs that the snowpack was sketchy that even a hack like myself predicted a month ago form across the country. Choose to ski a steep thin slope with out a helmet or avy gear. There is so many bad choices here its almost like suicide by avalanche. For his short coming I thought he was smarter about snow pack than this.
I feel for his family and for his friends, it sucks to lose anyone.
Svend as for risk taking. I do not think that money has anything to do with risk taking. I think that the majority of the folks who take huge risk just have an addictive personality that need to be feed with adrenaline. Most of these guys and girls were taking huge risk prior to ever getting paid a cent to ski. Personally if I am not skiing stuff that is scaring me alittle I get bored really quicker if I was not addicted to adrenaline I could easily see myself being an alcoholic or a drug addict both of which are alot worse than my addictions right now although they are probably cheaper.
If you ever get a chance to ski with someone like Sage he skis the same whether he is being filmed or out skiing mellow BC with friends. He encourages people and inspires people. I have been privileged enough to share more than a few runs and BC tours with him. I have also seem huck 50 footers when noone was filming. He like most of these guys do it for the love, they are just happy that their sponsorship let them do it more.
In fact sage was out skiing the day JP died. They were out skiing catherines with a group of 4 and trust me when I say this. They all had helmet, they all had avy gear, they all had generally idea of the snowpack. They also choose an area to ski that is much safer from both a steepness stand point and an exposure to hard stuff to slide into stand point. If I was out there, I would have been right there with this group. -
-
You know, sometimes the people around you just surprise the heck out of you.
I am very impressed at what a diverse and well-rounded set of opinions have just been presented. Damn well done, I think. -
-
to show an example of how money is not a motivating factor for these guys check out this video of Sage and Matt Colin riding spines in southern utah. Noone was filming them, they are not pro mountain bikers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAqt141eJAU
-
-
I agree that extreme skiing is dangerous and that it may be somewhat akin to mountain climbing. Having said that Ed Viesturs I think says it best when he says that "getting to the top is optional, getting down is mandatory!" Clearly not enough adrenaline junkies think this way. Jamie Pierre said after his 255 ft huck that he had been eyeing that huck for years and finally on that day he thought he had a reasonable chance of surviving! Now that mindset says it all. I generally feel some amount of anger when I hear friends and family say "well he died doing what he loved" especially when there are young chlidern at home that are now fatherless!
If you need to ski in situations daily where you know you are putting your life at risk, then you as an individual have to ask the questiion, "what's wrong with my life!!" If you can't get fulfillment from looking at your childern, from simply skiing down the mountain on a gorgeous day, from a great bike ride or a movie wth your mate, something is wrong!!
I am not sure it is the ski industry that promotes the go for broke attitude. But it has become a clutural phenomenon within the extreme skiing community and it is pervasive and in general it promotes more of what we have seen from CRJ, Shane and Jamie.
-
-
I agree that extreme skiing is dangerous and that it may be somewhat akin to mountain climbing. Having said that Ed Viesturs I think says it best when he says that "getting to the top is optional, getting down is mandatory!" Clearly not enough adrenaline junkies think this way. Jamie Pierre said after his 255 ft huck that he had been eyeing that huck for years and finally on that day he thought he had a reasonable chance of surviving! Now that mindset says it all. I generally feel some amount of anger when I hear friends and family say "well he died doing what he loved" especially when there are young chlidern at home that are now fatherless!
If you need to ski in situations daily where you know you are putting your life at risk, then you as an individual have to ask the questiion, "what's wrong with my life!!" If you can't get fulfillment from looking at your childern, from simply skiing down the mountain on a gorgeous day, from a great bike ride or a movie wth your mate, something is wrong!!
I am not sure it is the ski industry that promotes the go for broke attitude. But it has become a clutural phenomenon within the extreme skiing community and it is pervasive and in general it promotes more of what we have seen from CRJ, Shane and Jamie.
Well said, John. Couldn't agree more.
Guys, thanks for the passionate replies, but I am going to stick to my assertion that industry pressure and all the money involved is a big factor that you just can't ignore. Sure, there are personal factors involved that are complicated, and speak to the psychology of risk taking, etc.. I'm not saying that these aren't an important part of this issue -- they certainly are, and can't be discounted -- but that's a whole other discussion.
I am going to venture a guess that the proportion of deaths of pro extreme skiers vs. amateurs (guys who do this just for an adrenaline high, but aren't looking for sponsorship or other money) is very skewed to the former. I don't have the stats to back it up, and perhaps we just don't hear about all the amateurs who die jumping off cliffs, etc.. But of all the thousands of recreational/amateur backcountry and big mountain skiers, I'd bet that the number of deaths per hundred skiers is significantly higher for the pros. Take out the factors of money, the hero culture of that group, and I'd bet that would be a leveler. If I'm wrong, then amateur skier deaths would be in the hundreds per year -- so why don't they make the news? I would say simply because they aren't happening. In other words, the pros are dying at a higher rate than the amateurs. Why? Because of the money factor.
Let's face it, they are called Pro for a reason -- that is their profession; they make money doing it. And yes, they ski in their free time just for fun. Of course they do, they love the sport. So do Miller and Vonn and Ligety, I'm sure. But they also ski a lot to train. In this respect they are just like any other pro athlete, they have to train for years for the big jump when the cameras are on them. And to do that, they ski when no one is watching, and they take risks doing it.
And I will repeat, I just can't think of another high-risk Pro sport that has this high a death rate -- not motorsports, not WC skiing, or anything else that comes to mind.
I guess there is the old chicken and egg question too -- which came first? Did the money follow the extreme skiers? Or did the extreme skiers follow the money? At the beginning, it was probably the former, but later, I'm guessing it was the latter.
Liam -- I'm not being a hand-wringer or an old nanny. And I'm not suggesting any sort of regulation or industry clamp-down. Just stating a point, cynical as it may be. The ski industry has to accept that they are in part responsible for this behavior, just as the skiers themselves are for perpetuating it and being willing participants. I think it's naive to assume that a guy would willing jump off a 250 foot cliff, uncertain of survival or spending the rest of his days in a wheelchair, if there wasn't a big carrot at the end of that stick.
-
-
A good friend of mine has been an instructor at Squaw for almost 30 years now (and I believe he has the most tenure of anyone there at this time). In his early years at Squaw he was skiing some exterme stuff for that time and one day Warren Miller came up to him and told him he would like him to ski in one of his films. My friend sat down and met with Warren for an hour or so and they went over exactly what Warren wanted. My friend knew the spots and thought the lines were risky but skiable under the right conditions. So after he had assessed that the risks were somehwat acceptable he then asked WM how much he was going to pay him for essentially risking his life. WM repsonded by saying I pay you nothing but you'll be famous. To which my friend promptly declined!
Now WM never did have a hard time finding someone that would ski those lines for free as 80% of those he was asking at Squaw said yes. And my friend on some level sort of regrets not taking the offer, because others that did went on to have decent skiing contracts over the years (maybe not huge money but more than an instructor at Squaw makes).
So I agree, the money is clearly a factor even if ironically for many their first pro gig they did for free!! -
-
I was just talking about all this with another ski bud this morning...
These pros are so gifted, I mean what they can do with their bodies, how much they challenge themselves to...they just have that drive to go faster, higher, farther....it's the thrill gene that dominates for them I think.
It would seem the "self preservation gene" (SPG) may not included.
Makes me look and say..."wow how cool would that be" but my SPG kicks in and says...I wanna be able to enjoy life as long as I can. I think many of us push ourselves to improve, take on challenges that are just outside our skill set. It's all part of learning and advancing. Clendenin has a great little mantra..."red, yellow, green terrain". When you ski with him, he measures the difficulty of the terrain for his student by these colors...green...ea sy to do, yellow...pushing my skill level...and Red...."danger Will Robinson".....but all within a fairly wide saftey margin.
I guess for me...it's not "the intensity of the light from the candle but how long the candle stays lighted"!
Still watching great ski flicks makes me appreciate their fearless talent.....I recognize at that level...it's really all about admiration and just not my shtick.
G
-
-
And admiration leads to emulation. In other sports you wear the jersey or the shoes. Skiing lacks that organization, so emulation becomes much more direct for certain personalities. I'm surprised that no one pointed at Warren Miller's films as a source for the glorification of the extreme and the dangerous. But I doubt that he created the behavior, but merely provided a new outlet for it's expression
-
-
I think John was implying that, when he described his friend's experience with Miller. But you're right on -- that's where it seems to have started back in the day, and that is often still the entry point for the young skiers today. Enter an Extreme Freeskiing competition somewhere, like Alaska, Chamonix, Chile; get noticed by a film company or magazine or website; get a picture published or a video shot, YouTube perhaps....with the goal of getting corporate sponsorship.
Gary and I have recently read a book by Leslie Anthony called "White Planet -- A Mad Dash Through Modern Global Ski Culture". Anthony is a magazine journalist and writer based in Whistler, and has worked (or still does) for Powder magazine, among others. The book describes, in part, his own journey through the culture of professional freeskiing, and the others in this group that he encounters along the way, virtually everywhere around the globe -- N. America, Europe, Asia, S. America. He is old enough to have been witness to the development of this culture from the very beginning, was a big part of it, and still is today, it seems. Very insightful, and opens a window into the scene, from it's origins through today. If anyone wants a real insider's perspective, this is the book to read. Very well written, too.
-
-
Like any professional sport, it's only the cream of the crop off the top that get the spotlight, the big bucks. The rest go hucking here and there with little concern and oodles of hope that they too can have a shot. I have met young kids in Whistler like that...busted up kids. Still, they've got that "no fear of consequence" factor that pushes them.
The White Planet like Svend said has this very similar description. What I got out of the book was there is this sub or super culture, pick you poison, of pro and wanna be pro's that go hard all day, party hard all night and they're living their dream. The things they do I thought where out right crazy, stupid and wildly amazing....but that's for me. What I missed in the book was the "White Planet" story of guys like me and us....that without concern of life and limb but only the love of pure enjoyment, ski pow lines, soft bumps, sweet groomers, sun, quiet, mountain peace, Gods world...that inner beauty that comes to life up in the mountains...but hey maybe that's in his next book.
I guess it's the stuff great books and movies are all about. We watch as these super hero's do the things we would want to borrow their bodies for. Having super hero's is entrenched in our culture....Superman, Batman, Underdog, Rocky and Bullwinkle, Spong Bob, Tom Terrific, Mighty Mouse....but sometimes I seem to draw my biggest personal parallel to...yup.....Wily Coyote!
Live long and Large Super Hero's....we need you! G
-