Author Topic: The heirarchy of PSIA  (Read 1665 times)

jim-ratliff

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The heirarchy of PSIA
« on: April 06, 2012, 12:04:33 pm »
This was triggered by BushWacka's recent achievement or recognition (and I don't know which it is) as a (or the?) PSIA-E DCL(Division Clinic Leader), and then Living Proof's post about "Demo Team" members not being able to write about technique (or some similar constraint), but I know that Mike Rogan is a regular in SKI magazine (maybe he is not a Demo Team Member).

So here is the question.  What is the structure of PSIA, and how do you progress from one level to another.  I know of Level I, Level II, Level III, and Demo Team.

So Josh. What did you have to do to progress through the 1-2-3 levels of Instructors, what led to or qualified you as PSIA-E DCL(Division Clinic Leader), what are some of the other levels of recognition or accomplishment, and I assume that Demo Team member is the top of the heap? 

Tell me more.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 12:57:14 pm by jim-ratliff »
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bushwacka

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Re: The heirarchy of PSIA
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2012, 12:29:27 pm »
First Mike Rogan he one the captain of the demo team and I agree with living proof his writing is not awesome and I was recent critic of his on tree skiing video.

On the progression of PSIA members

this document will outline the specifics of skills from both the teaching and skiing sides.

http://www.psia-e.org/ed/alpine/AlpineExamGuide.pdf

My cliffs notes for those not willing to read that document

PSIA Level 1 - able to make open parallel on blue level terrain. As well show solid demo of fundamental skill like sidestepping, herringbone elect able to teach at a very basic level.

I have never heard of  someone failing a L1 exam. Its the only exam that the examiners/DCLs are aloud to coach you to get though. If you have a pulse and can ski in the loosest sense you will pass.

PSIA Level 2 - Skiing skills -L2 ski teachers should be able to make short, medium, and long radius turns on all blue terrain and groomed black terrain. skis should leave 2 separate arcs with minuimal skidding at all time.  Basically someone who solid and in balance on most terrain low level 8.

Teaching skills - Is able to teach though the intermiedate zone while address from MA what is happening and why it is happening. Should be able to teach creatively.

My take, a PSIA L2 is someone who can teach 95 percent of your lesson and do it well. Their skiing skill is admittely not very high but they have a solid base and solid understanding and most will be able to make a real improvement in the general publics skiing.

PSIA Level 3 - copied right out of the above link  Level III-certified instructors possess high levels of skill and knowledge that allow him or her to
make an uncompromised contribution to the customer, the association, and the ski industry. A
Level III-certified member has the ability to assess all variables with regard to student
personality traits, goals, abilities, needs, the learning environment, conditions of the day,
available terrain, equipment, etc., and to synthesize these parts into a viable lesson plan. A
Level III instructor can make adjustments to lesson goals and is able to appropriately adjust or
modify lesson content as required by any situation.
Category A: Skiing

Level III-certified teachers should have the skills to make short-, medium-, and long-radius turns
with little or no skidding. The skis describe two well-defined arcs from before the fall line to turn
completion. Terrain and snow conditions should have a minimal effect on skill application,
movement accuracy, and turn outcome. Turn dynamics should represent the terrain, speed, and
snow conditions common to Advanced zone skiing. A Level III-certified teacher has the ability to
maintain dynamics and movement accuracy through most conditions, on any terrain on most
mountains.

General Characteristics

The candidate will be able to:
 Ski dynamic-parallel turns on any terrain on most mountains
 Reduce, generate, or maintain speed without interrupting overall flow or rhythm
 Ski a variety of turn sizes and shapes and apply them to different mountain
situations
 Demonstrate different types of skill blends and movement patterns in exercises,
tasks, and turns upon request, and as applied in different mountain situations
 Maintain control over turn shape and speed while skiing most conditions on any
terrain on most mountains

teaching skills - Consider safety concerns as students move beyond the Intermediate zone
learning environment
 Make specific lesson-plan decisions based on accurate interpretation of student
behavior and performance
 Adjust the depth and pacing of information and feedback to address the needs,
motivation, and interest level of the students
 Address a variety of learning styles and utilize various feedback systems to
facilitate an experiential learning environment
 Identify the elements of multiple intelligence theory and relate these concepts to
sensory preferences in communication and information exchange
 Describe, in depth, the skier services and activities available at one?s home area
as well as within the ski industry
 Display a strong ability to answer a ?How-do-I-get-there?? question regarding
queries involving movement analysis
 Display an in-depth understanding of cause-and-effect relationships relative to
skill references and specific movement issues
 Create unique lesson plans by way of strong understanding of people and ski
technique

my take, a PSIA L3 on paper should be a solid skier all around on anything. they should also be able to teach that skill anytime, any where in any conditions.






« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 12:34:00 pm by bushwacka »

bushwacka

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Re: The heirarchy of PSIA
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2012, 12:46:32 pm »
Beyond L3 there are 4 teams and you must be an L3 to make any of those teams, and that is the only requirement to tryout. These are all Education Staff and once you make one the PSIA pays you to run events.

DCL - Division Clinic Leader. this team does the majority of the Clinics and Level 1 exams thoughout the divisions. DCL coaches are a step above L3 but supposedly a step below examiners. There is no standard -- it is a tryout. This year 19 out of 50 people made it. I personally was the best skier in their eyes and not that awesome of a teacher, but I still made it. If you make it you serve a 4 year term.

Demo Team - The PSIA's best skiing coaches in America. More emphasis on skiing than on coaching. 10 to 15 people in country get selected through a 5 day tryout that is done every 4 years.  You can also be a DCL or a Dev team/ETS/Examiner and still be on Demo Team.

Developmental Team(aka Dev) - very much like DCL except, IMO, it is a higher standard than DCL. This is the path to examiner.  Much lower selection rate than DCL. You are understudying events and exams to gain experience.

ETS - Examiner Training Squad - after 2 and 4 year on Dev team you get a chance to jump up to the ETS squad. Once you make this it just takes your scores to start matching up with other examiners before you're an examiner.

Examiner - able to run any event and exam the PSIA runs.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 12:54:40 pm by jim-ratliff »

midwif

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Re: The heirarchy of PSIA
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2012, 06:48:15 pm »
Quite a hierarchy.
Congratulations on your acceptance to DCL!

Rule well, O Bushwhacka. :D

Seriously, quite an accomplishment.
L.
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meput

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Re: The heirarchy of PSIA
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2012, 07:35:39 pm »
Congrats BushW.

Thank you for the synopsis of PSIA hierarchy.

Continue to ski-free and prosper.

jim-ratliff

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Re: The heirarchy of PSIA
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2012, 07:56:37 pm »
Thanks Josh. More levels than I thought.
So two thirds of your group didn't make the cut, and that from a group of all PSIA III's. Well done!!
And thanks for the explanation.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 07:58:35 pm by jim-ratliff »
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bushwacka

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Re: The heirarchy of PSIA
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2012, 04:45:34 am »
some of them Max. alot of them are being hindered by their inability to see though the BS of whats good and bad in skiing and instead become yes men and yes women. Some are pretty freaking amazing. I got to ski with the a group who was trying out for National Demo Team this year being coached by Terry Barbour last week and Eric Lipton a current national team member was there. IMO Him and Sogard a step alot of the people on that team.



I would disregard what ever they are teaching because we most likely take it out of context but this guy can ski and pay attention to the skiing.  the tip and lift. flex to release counter when he wants it and dolphin movements being done in bumps.

Let it be clear I do not teach to company line on alot of things and I am much more open to new ideas than alot of the higher ups but at the tryouts they saw value to that. they probably also saw value in my youth. I am the youngest Ed staff member on the entire east coast by 3 years. The duty of youth is to challenge the establishment and that I did at the tryout. Some people in the PSIA love that and some are quite frighten by the fact that I could in fact take their jobs. 

My goals

2013 make the Dev team
2014 Make the eastern Demo team  which will get me a scholarship to the big show in snowbird in 2016
2015 make ETS squad
2016 tryout and hopefully succeed at the National Demo Team tryout.  crazy to think Ill be 32 by then.




jim-ratliff

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Re: The heirarchy of PSIA
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2012, 07:18:08 pm »

Let it be clear I do not teach to company line on alot of things and I am much more open to new ideas than alot of the higher ups........
The duty of youth is to challenge the establishment and that I did at the tryout.
Some people in the PSIA love that and some are quite frighten by the fact. 
Josh:
I'm reminded of another "young" skier that was on the PSIA demo team and didn't believe that teaching "the party line" was in the best interest of the skier customer.  He was also an instructor (at Aspen), and got some face time on video's with Lito Tejada-Flores on how to best use the new shaped skis.
The "duty of youth" MAY be to challenge the establishment, but Harald found that what he thought was necessary change the establishment saw as a threat and as heresy.  Hence  the ongoing "Spanish inquisition" between the two groups.
Make sure you choose your battles wisely, young Jedi!!!

 :D ;)
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 10:04:02 pm by jim-ratliff »
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LivingProof

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Re: The heirarchy of PSIA
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2012, 08:33:27 am »
I got to ski with the a group who was trying out for National Demo Team this year being coached by Terry Barbour last week and Eric Lipton a current national team member was there. IMO Him and Sogard a step alot of the people on that team.



I would disregard what ever they are teaching because we most likely take it out of context but this guy can ski and pay attention to the skiing.  the tip and lift. flex to release counter when he wants it and dolphin movements being done in bumps.

Eric Lipton is the featured skier in the video. Question: What do Eric Lipton, High Angles and I have in common. Answer: All Blue Mountain Pa. skiers...Eric still lives in the area ( but skies in the west),and, is known at Blue Mtn. as the "the Pope" a reference to when he speaks about skiing, people listen. I tried to chase him around  one day, he skis way to fast. Eric also accompanied our former associate Ron to South America two seasons ago. I sure like his skiing.

Jim,
Google PSIA Eastern and find their website. Lots of good info there and they claim 10,000 members in the east alone.

Josh,
You wrote that we should not take an instructional info from the video because we would take it out of context. I would offer that your reviews of video's of other pro instructors often disregard the context of what the video was intended to show. Great skiing and great instructing are different skill sets.

jim-ratliff

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Re: The heirarchy of PSIA
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2012, 10:01:47 am »
Max:  What is your interpretation?
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LivingProof

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Re: The heirarchy of PSIA
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2012, 10:25:18 am »
LP, what is your of the instruction in the video linked above?

Max,

The only real instructional phase occurs early in the video. My guess is that the PSIA concept of "fore-agonal" is being presented. In the post fall line portion of the C shaped turn, shoulders and hips should not be square to the skis, but, facing both ahead and down the mountain. Same would be true for projecting a skiers mass both down the hill and forward.

For sure he is NOT demonstrating the PSIA keep your feet apart dogma! Why is it that whenever I see somebody skiing really good, the feet are much closer together than is taught?

Other than that, I think he's demonstrating nice, controlled bump skiing and playing with mountain. This would be consistent with a clinic approach of displaying a style that the audience can video work toward emulating. More relaxed, square and taller in general, but, he can flex pretty deep whenever he wants.

bushwacka

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Re: The heirarchy of PSIA
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2012, 07:02:09 pm »
Max,

The only real instructional phase occurs early in the video. My guess is that the PSIA concept of "fore-agonal" is being presented. In the post fall line portion of the C shaped turn, shoulders and hips should not be square to the skis, but, facing both ahead and down the mountain. Same would be true for projecting a skiers mass both down the hill and forward.

For sure he is NOT demonstrating the PSIA keep your feet apart dogma! Why is it that whenever I see somebody skiing really good, the feet are much closer together than is taught?

Other than that, I think he's demonstrating nice, controlled bump skiing and playing with mountain. This would be consistent with a clinic approach of displaying a style that the audience can video work toward emulating. More relaxed, square and taller in general, but, he can flex pretty deep whenever he wants.

stance width should be functional IE the stance should faclitate what we are trying to accomplish. I think the stance should be much narrower than the shoulder width of 5-7 year that was for sure being taught.

for angnoal to me is to move your COM into the new turn so that you can be on edge well before the fall line. It is not which way any part of us is pointed. I also think that sometime we should delay those movement so that our feet can get further away from us.

dan.boisvert

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Re: The heirarchy of PSIA
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2012, 08:26:39 pm »
I think it's awesome that you're moving up the ranks and still bringing the stoke, Josh.  That rocks!


Two things I've never understood, but have heard people say a lot:

1) shoulder-width feet--what do your shoulders have to do with your feet?  Shouldn't you worry about your foot spacing in relationship to the part that connects them?  ie, the hips?  I've heard that in other athletic contexts too, but never thought it made sense there, either.

2) the for-agonal thing--if I understand this right, it means you project the center of mass forward and down the hill at transition, which happens for free due to gravity anyway.  I don't get why this would be taught, especially since you need to undo most of it to maintain tip and edge pressure at the top of the new turn.  If I let the center of mass go down the hill freely, I can't stick an edge at the top of the turn on anything steeper than an easy green.  To do it on even a blue, I need to stay aggressively forward in relationship to the skis and do what PMTS folks call counterbalancing to keep weight on the new edges, or I start the turn with my edges washing out.  The difference in result is night and day.


In PSIA-land, do they start off by teaching this stuff, and then eventually say "welllll...let's change that now" when you get to a certain level?  Do they believe in it all the way through?  How does that work?

jim-ratliff

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Re: The heirarchy of PSIA
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2012, 08:42:50 pm »
Shoulder width feet in other sports is for stability (not  balance), and therefore more able to resist external disruptions (someone bumping into you). In those situations you never want your center of mass outside your feet.

I agree, no application to skiing, unless you are really worried about others running into you.
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dan.boisvert

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Re: The heirarchy of PSIA
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2012, 09:17:49 pm »
Shoulder width feet in other sports is for stability (not  balance), and therefore more able to resist external disruptions (someone bumping into you). In those situations you never want your center of mass outside your feet.

Whoops.  I should've written that more clearly.  I meant I didn't understand using the shoulders as the reference point, because shoulder/hip widths vary quite a bit by individual, and people end up putting themselves into weird positions while following that instruction due to individual morphology.  I think a better approach is to speak from the perspective of the hips, so say "a bit wider than hip width" or whatever instead.