Side Bevels On Supershape Magnums

[patprof]

While I love my Supershape Magnums (even going to keep them for a second year)-I wanted a tad more edge hold on all the boilerplate we've been getting in the East this year. Upon the recommendation of many people, I had a fresh stone grind on the skis and also changed the side bevel from 1 to 3 degrees. What a difference! The edges now engage earlier but, also smoother-and the edge hold has improved dramatically. I would recommend this change for anyone skiing on the Magnums.

[jim-ratliff]

patprof:

Do you know what the factory bevels were?? "2 side and 1 base" or "1 side and 1 base".  Any disadvantages as far as skis being too grabby or anything, or just all positive improvement. I assume you left the base bevel at 1 degree?

I've been considering increasing the side bevel on my i.SL Chips for the same reason.  Encouraged to hear that you feel it was such a positive change, even if different models of skis.

[patprof]

Jim-hard to get a straight answer on the factory bevels. To the best of my knowledge they were 1 base and 1 side. I left the base at 1 degree. I was afraid that going to 3 on the side bevel would make the skis more "grabby". No worries-the skis do hook up earlier BUT in a very predictable and smooth way. I can't imagine going back to the original side bevel.
Pat

[Svend]

Hey Pat,

I know this thread is a month old, but I thought I'd throw in a comment to see if it might be useful.  The factory bevel on my wife's Supershape Speeds is 0.5 base and 3 side, giving a net 87.5 angle.  This was a lot, and might be great for hard carving/racing, but for recreational skiing wasn't the best.  The skis were pretty hooky on the hardpack, hindered smooth turn transitions at a more leisurely pace, and let's face it, every now and then ya gotta skid a turn or two, esp. when skiing with the kids, which the aggressive bevels were preventing.  I changed the bevels to 1 base, and 2 side, for a net of 89 degrees.  This was much improved for everyday skiing, and was plenty good enough for the eastern hardpack and icy patches we encountered last week at Whiteface.  She had no problems with edge hold on steep blacks -- way better than her instructors, in fact, who were all on Atomic Metrons and were skidding all over the place on the ice patches.

The other drawback to an 87.5 angle is that I was sharpening the darn things constantly.  They just wouldn't hold their edge for long.  The new angle seems to be lasting much longer.  They're still sharp after 4 days on the hard stuff.

BR,

Svend

[Ron]

All head skis come 1:1. Unless they are race-stock

[Svend]

Hi Ron,

The shop where we bought them, as well as another that we asked, gave us the 0.5 & 3 angles.  Maybe they were wrong, but they seemed pretty sure about it.  Both also do race skis, which the SS Speeds are derived from.  Perhaps they were thinking of race stock angles.  In any case, my wife did notice a difference in ski feel after I reset the edge angles.  Could also be because I detuned the tips and tails somewhat.

Svend

[Svend]

Ron,

FWIW, I just checked with the store where we bought the SS Speeds, and they confirmed that they tune all new Head race skis and derivatives thereof before the customer gets them, with 0.5 and 3 angles.  Not sure if this is after the factory spec, or just their own practice -- the experienced staff were all out, and I got a junior who wasn't sure of the factory spec.

Svend

[jim-ratliff]

If they said "they tune" then to me that means they have found those angles work best for their racing clients and choose to regrind the edges at those angles for "race skis".  And those angles make good sense for racing skis.  Harald Harb uses those angles on his skis, I believe, but recommends 1 and 2 (or 1 and 3) for recreational skiers.

[Ron]

Call Head if you don't beleive me. Tuned means they have tuned them, not that they come that way. I think that the vast majority of people will find a 2:1 tune to be a more comfortable and user friendly tune for groomed soft or PP snow. 3:1 is or 3:.5 is for race performance and quite frankly, is for icy hard runs where absolute performance is necessary. Angles like that are tricky, the ski can be catchy and tiring after a while. Unless you are skiing at ultra-high levels or racing, I would strongly suggest a 2:1 like Jim said. FWIW, I use a 2:1 and for loose snow/powder a 1:1 is just fine. (I'm not HH but I can get down the hill)

[Svend]

Hey Ron,
It's not that I don't believe you, so don't think I'm doubting you.  No offense intended.  You are probably right in that it is the shop that is tuning the SS Speeds to 0.5/3, not the factory, and I said as much in my previous post:

I just checked with the store where we bought the SS Speeds, and they confirmed that they tune all new Head race skis and derivatives thereof before the customer gets them, with 0.5 and 3 angles

My initial post came from the statement from the shop (made with conviction) at the time of purchase, that the Head factory tune is 0.5/3 for the SS Speed.  I was not able to get a clear answer from them when I called a few days ago, as to what the factory tune actually is.

In any case, this is all academic for my purposes, as the skis are now being tuned to 1 and 2 (which I also mentioned), and that is making them much more comfortable to ski on, and still gives lots of grip on icy stuff.  It's working well, so we'll stick with it. 

BR
Svend

[Gary]

Svend....
I do my all mountian skis...Fischer Watea 84's and my Head SS....1 degree base and 2 degrees side.

Ski about 30 days in the east and almost the same out west this year by season end. Have found that bevel combo to be right on as far as edge hold and durabiltiy on both sides of the Rockies in powder, broken snow and hardpack.

Best,
Gary

[Ron]

I would us a ski specific file like this http://www.racewax.com/servlet/the-123/Chrome%2C-file%2C-hard%2C-medium/Detail You only want to take off as little as possible to get the job done.

[Gary]

Svend....I have a medium file and a course file. Because I hit my skis every couple times out with the blue diamond stone followed by the white ceramic polishing stone....use of either of the files especially the course file is not common. If I'm out west putting in 6 days of skiing, I may run the medium file down sides and bases edges oh so lightly just to knock off any heavy nicks or burrs but pretty much rely on the blue diamond stone and the white ceramic to keep the edge hard and sharp.

Keep a light steady hand and feel the edges...hey...just like skiing.... Like Ron says, Little is better in this case!

You can both hear and feel what's happening as you slide the guides along. Always work tip to tail and make sure you don't over work any one spot on the edges. Try to work in continuous motion. Only use the files if the skis have been unattended for long periods.
Trust the diamond and ceramic stones....wet (with water) first and sharpen and polish. (Luke) "the force be with you" ...leave your light saber home!?

Hope this helps.

Gary

[Svend]

Ah, so! Light, steady hand, Grasshopper....

(are you guys old enough to remember who Grasshopper was?)

Lucky for me and my skis that you told me this.  I've only done this once or twice on my skis, and think I used a rather unsubtle amount of force on the file.  Fortunately the file has a fine cut to it, and wasn't aggressively shaving off huge curls of metal.  That, and I only did a couple of passes.  All is well....

I gather that the base bevel filing is a light maintenance function with the diamond stone, just to keep the nicks and burrs out, with the occasional light once-over with a real file.  The real sharpening happens at the edge. 

Ron and Gary -- thanks for the tip on the stones and files -- I'll pop into my local shop and pick up a couple.

Many thanks...

Svend

[Gary]

Ah yes Grasshopper...you have been so enlightened....as always....our pleasure.

And yes...old enough....but no one is counting.

Light file maintenace on the base edge is the way to go...use those diamond stones. No sins can be committed that way!

As I understand it...the use of the ceramic stone polishes and hardens the edge making it bullet proof, faster than a speedy snow boarder and able to leap tall moguls in a single bound.....still working on that x-ray vision.

Best,
Gary