Author Topic: back seat front seat driver  (Read 391 times)

Gary

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back seat front seat driver
« on: April 01, 2008, 09:13:20 am »
I was having a recent conversation with a ski buddy about finding the sweet spot on our skis. That position where you are the driver of your Ferrari.....We talked about body positions and I said finding what I refer to as my "attack position" gives me the greatest control over my skis. He brought up a good point that sometimes driving the knees too hard might get the? hips and entire body out of sync?additionally,? the skier might be in a constant state of rigidness. I belief ( and probably better stated)? is to make sure center mass is in it?s ideal position over the skis so as the lightest fore/aft balance changes have the greatest impact on control of the skis. I think in order to get there?.one must identify where their center of mass is when on the skis. One thought is that if boots are too stiff,? being able to get to that ideal position is at best difficult and? has the body always fighting to find its most efficient position?(skeletal stacking). The amount of ramp angle under foot also can play a role in finding this position as well. I recently as an experiment put 4 strips of duct tape under the heel of my footbed. Each strip of duct tape equals ? degree of ramp angle. So effectively, I added 1 degree of ramp angle to my foot and really like how that slight change made it easier for me to stay connected with center mass over the skis.

One experiment to see how moving your center mass around affects the control of your skis is to loosen your 2 upper buckles on a nice green run.? I would certainly not loosen the boots other than an as an experiment to see if it gives you a better sense of how moving your center mass forward impacts your skiing. With loose buckles for all day skiing, your fore/aft quickness would be seriously degraded. Then if you find you like the position the loose upper cuff allow you to achieve, search for ways to get your body more into that position. Maybe your boots are too stiff and you can have them made a wee bit softer allowing you to move your center mass into a more stacked position. Maybe trying to add a bit of ramp angle would be a good experiment.

How to tell? ::)

My thoughts are when in my boots standing on a hard flat surface,? arms in your pole holding position, when I relax my knees, I feel like I?m equally centered fore and aft. Meaning, the pressure to the tongue and rear cuff feels equal and I feel stacked (weighted) down through my ankles. This feeling of being centered and balanced in my boots I believe is key.

I believe getting a feel for all this is the major step in understanding how such changes impact ones ability to be efficient and powerful when skiing. This is stuff that's easy to do and if you are not quite centered, you will feel some kind of difference.

For me,  it's a lot more fun being a front seat driver.....

Best,
Gary

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Glenn

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Re: back seat front seat driver
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2008, 08:30:02 am »
You're spot on. Last few times I went skiing, I had the top two buckles a bit loose. I cranked them down a bit (but not to "I won't feel my lower legs from loss of blood flow" levels) and the difference was really amazing. I forgot what it was like to have your boots comfortably tight.  ;D

Gary

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Re: back seat front seat driver
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2008, 12:53:10 pm »
Hey Glenn...I mentioned the loosened top 2 buckles really as an experiment so the skier could sense how the boards engage with their center mass further forward.

As a rule, I buckle my top 2 buckles snug, so I can feel equal firm pressure entirely around the lower leg. Then I tighten the strap as tight as it will go and turn down my ski sock over the top of the boot for the best contact I can keep with that part of the boot.

Any delays or inefficient movement in the upper cuff becomes delayed response to the ski.

Finding that sweet spot where your center mass moves ever so slightly to obtain maximum engagement of the ski is such a ...

"man,...that's freakn' wicked good" feeling!

G

Glenn

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Re: back seat front seat driver
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2008, 06:18:37 am »
I used to have a sweet set of Rosi race boots back in high school. The boots were awesome. They kept you locked in and just right. Problem was, they were cold as you know what. If a snow flake fell on them, forget it.

My current boots are bit more on the "comfort" side. But when I crank them down, they put me right where I need to be. Problem was, without cranking them down, I was having to make an effort to get forward. Amazing what tightening up those two top buckles two notches each did.

Gary

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Re: back seat front seat driver
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2008, 12:57:35 pm »
You bring up a good point Glenn...

Having "race boots" for all day skiing can be tough on the tootsies....
One can have that race boot ground, blown out, sanded, and blessed by the pope in order to get that "I've just been swallowed by an alligator and can't get out"....kind of what I did for my Head RS80....but the flex on that boot worked for me. The stance works for me....not to much forward lean and not too upright.....and this boot is not a true plug boot. 

Having a race boot for everyday snow conditions might be a great ego trip but skiing them in "all day" snow conditions, I've seen guys spend as much time buckling and un-buckling their boots as they do riding the chair. But if the "boot fits" and allows the skier to achieve their ideal stance for balance and performance for a variety of snow condtions....then it's all good.

Good Boots =Love Story:
Excellent fit, correct alignment, proper flex I think should be the goal of the all mountain skier. .......oh yeah...comfy means happy toes, warm feet and never having to tell your feet you're sorry!

Gary

Glenn

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Re: back seat front seat driver
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2008, 01:07:25 pm »
My boots are probably 15 years old. They're purple Soloman's. But you know what? They fit great, they're warm and my feet are comfy. I'll upgrade eventually, but for now, they're good.

I saw a nice set of boots on Steap and Cheap today. Probablem is, boots are so important; I'd be leary of ordering them from the internet. The only way I can see doing that is if I've tried them on in the store and I knew the fit was good.

Gary

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Re: back seat front seat driver
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2008, 01:24:28 pm »
Whoa big boy....15 year old Solomons.....

My freaking heart just went into defib.....

Not rear entry :'( :'(please, no, not that..

Ok...I'M heading out the door for a meeting.....criminy ...I hope I can stay focused.

We need to talk....I need help from my RS brothern....

I THINK WE NEED A FREAKN' INTERVENTION!!!!!! :-\

midwif

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Re: back seat front seat driver
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2008, 02:54:56 pm »
Take it easy Gary, you're not alone.  ;)
Reinforcements have just come over the ridge line.
 
Glenn,
Forget the skis........BOOTS!!!!
Those babies are what make the edges, edge, the turns, turn.
The power of the boot outweighs the power of new skis.
Boot technology has advanced tremendously in 15 years.

Think computers!!!! Are 15 year old computers a good match for the new hardward, software, computer ware.....you get my drift.

Get thee to a ski shop......but read first about boot characteristics on the main site. You want a lateral boot and many shop personnel have NO idea what that meansn.
Best of luck.
Lynn
"Play it Sam"

jim-ratliff

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Re: back seat front seat driver
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2008, 03:14:54 pm »
 ;D? ?;D? ?;D? ?;D? ?;D? Very Obviously Piling On.


Hey Glenn, I think I'm going out and buy some of the new Michelin Pilot Sport all season tires.? I understand that they are a great all-conditions tire, excellent lateral traction, high speed stable.

Of course, I'm going to mount them on the stock rims of my 1958 Edsel with stock springs and shocks.? I'm sure my Edsel will handle better, but am I going to get anywhere close to realizing the performance of the tires?

Not only has boot technology changed quite a bit, the alignment importance and understanding (at good boot-fitters) changed a lot as well.? Remember the two golden rules of skiing (and of life).

#1. The woman is always right (and midwif is a woman).
#2. Boots are far more important than skis.? If it's a choice, buy boots and rent skis.

Late season deals should be available at good bootfitters.
Take a look at: http://www.masterfituniversity.com/abb.html
« Last Edit: April 03, 2008, 04:18:40 pm by jim-ratliff »
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Glenn

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Re: back seat front seat driver
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2008, 06:48:51 am »
LMAO! You guys are killing me! I'm going to post a pic of my "purple boots" as my wife calls them. They're NOT rear entry...thank God. I haven't skied rear entry boots since the 1980's. These are probably mid 1990's boots.

Ron

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Re: back seat front seat driver
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2008, 07:30:50 am »
PLEASE DO NOT POST THAT PICTURE! IT will be too painful.

1- I need to convert you into a fellow gear ****... and fast. I am now wondering if you and Ed were separated at birth. Gary, Alice, Lynn and Jim, we need to take this man shopping or at the very least get him setup with an RSS feed to Steepandcheap.com.
2- footbeds.......wher e are you located? The new process of building the allignment into the footbed as it's being made is the ticket. Start there with your boot of choice. Not to stir the sh*t but I know Gary and I don't like the PMTS mantra of super stiff boots. Find something that fits properly and has a moderate, progressive flex. I have Head sx11's and they are plenty stiff. Get them nice and upright; neutral postioning is key. After that, all yo will need is to have the buckles snug, no need to clamp anything down. A world of difference!
3- if you have cold feet or just like warm toes, I can't even beigin to tell you how great the Hotronic M4 boot heaters are. Wafer-thin elements go right into the boot, no effect on fit, just 6 plus hours of warmth even at below zero temps.

Gary

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Re: back seat front seat driver
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2008, 07:32:57 am »
Thank you troops.....

Glen...your purple feet eating ski boots maybe the most comfy boots out there....and heh...that's ok...

BUT...as you can tell.....my brethren all have found the best way to find Nirvana is through new boots.....new skis look pretty standing in lift lines but when it's time to put down the peddle, drop the hammer, pop the cork, ......the boots transfer all that driving energy to the skis.

Hmmm....I think it's like squeezing a 450 hp ?( hybrid ::) ) through a plugged exhaust system ....the power never gets to the wheels...

I think you would be totally amazed how a new boot would re-ignite your on mountain performance. AND they can be as pretty and comfy as your purple Solomons too!

G

Ron

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Re: back seat front seat driver
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2008, 07:43:11 am »
Thank you troops.....

Glen...your purple feet eating ski boots maybe the most comfy boots out there....and heh...that's ok...
BUT...as you can tell.....my brethren all have found the best way to find Nirvana is through new boots.....new skis look pretty standing in lift lines but when it's time to put down the peddle, drop the hammer, pop the cork, ......the boots transfer all that driving energy to the skis.

Hmmm....I think it's like squeezing a 450 hp ?( hybrid ::) ) through a plugged exhaust system ....the power never gets to the wheels...

I think you would be totally amazed how a new boot would re-ignite your on mountain performance. AND they can be as pretty and comfy as your purple Solomons too!

G

Great, use them as your slippers, maybe wear with matching BArney PJ's!  >:D

Glenn

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Re: back seat front seat driver
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2008, 10:31:10 am »
I saw something online called "road skis"....guess I could always use my boots for those?

I checked here: http://www.bootfitters.com/FIND_SHOP.htm  The ski shop I was at over the weekend is certified. In fact, it's the only place certified in CT by that organization. I'm in Connecticut BTW.


I'll be more than happy to **** it up with the gear. I do have to "tread lightly" since I just dropped some coin on the new planks. I don't want to upset the appropriations committee and get stuck sleeping on the couch!  :o

Ron

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Re: back seat front seat driver
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2008, 10:40:31 am »
New skis- $550.00
New Helmet- $80.00
New Jacket- $300.00
New pants- $150.00
New Smith goggles, $40.00

Sleeping on the couch - worth it!  ;)