Strap or Strapless

[Gary]

Ah Ha.....you're wondering..where is the "G" man going with this...

Last year due to a left arm brace I ended up removing my straps from my ski poles. Now, ever since I've skied, I've always done the hand through and around the wrist ritual. Getting off or on the lift, removing gloves to get into my pocket, take a picture, grab an energy bar, off came the strap and I just dealt with it.
Comes ski season 07-08 and it was strapless...and I have to tell ya,....I like strapless....no fuss, easy to discard, makes access to whatever my hands need to access a breeze... ...(now to dig out of the hole) it just made so much sense for me. Now I never dropped a pole off the chair lift. Did leave one behind in a soft snow bump run at the? crest of the bump....the pole stuck, I contined at first vertical, then at a 45 degree angle and then when my back hit the snow, I let go....a true die hard.

Still, the only potential problem I see is skiing deep snow and potentially having the pole submarine.

Well, I know it's not the coolest of ski topics but I was curious to see if I was the only strapless cavorter!

So, let me hear your thoughts....do YOU prefer strap or strapless??

Best,
Gary

[Ron]

I never put the straps on, never! can you explain the concern you have with Submarining poles?

[jim-ratliff]

Strapless with a caveat.? I was always getting the straps caught on stuff, they are just general nuisance.? I've been using the Leki trigger poles for about 4 years now, so my poles are attached to the gloves (or not) depending on how and where I'm skiing.? If I let go of my poles when clicked in, they stay attached to the little trigger "thingy" right between the thumb and the forefinger (they don't go sliding around on my arm like with normal ski straps).?I can let go of the pole to pick something up, and the pole stays where it is easy to regrab. When I push the trigger with my thumb to release them then the poles are strapless.? And since I don't have the normal straps in my hand, I have a better feel for the poles.

For my old pair I have a velcro band that fits around and over the glove with elastic break-away point in the thumb web space where the pole attaches (I ripped off the elastic on one band during a fall).? For my newer pair I bought a pair of Leki gloves along with the poles and the attachment point is built into the gloves (newer attchment point too). In the picture below, the pole is shown with the external strap ( you would wear it over your existing gloves) but they also make gloves that attach directly. Also, the attachment points are now springy, if your pole stops and you don't the pole will pull free of the glove (maybe a plus, maybe not, better than a dislocated thumb or shoulder or a fall).



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[midwif]

I stay with the straps.
It must be my ski skills (or lack thereof), but I seem to leave a pole behind rather frequently when I do go strapless!!
Guess my pole plant needs to lighten up!

[Ron]

I talked to Gary, he just meant that if he dropped a pole in powder, it could get lost. I used to have those Leki poles but the way the pole is attached to the glove is a dangeroous setup. The pole strap should not hold the pole in the palm of your hand if yu let it go. It should fall away from your hand. If it stays in the palm of your hand when you fall, you run a very high risk of getting skiers Thumb (which I had), that's usually a broken ligament, broken thumb and dislocated thumb. It requires a surgical reattachment of the ligament, its not fun. 

Lyn, lite pole plants except when it gets rough and tumble and you need those plants as little outriggers!

[jim-ratliff]

Ron, I don't agree (but am willing to be educated).

I thought the most common cause of Skier's Thumb was not holding the straps in the palm of your hand between your hand and the pole.? If you just loop the straps over your wrist and over the top of the thumb and forefinger (the natural way, but wrong) and the pole gets caught, then the pole pulls the straps down over your thumb and dislocates the thumb.? The problem is the leverage betweeen the loop around the wrist and the straps over the thumb.? That's the reason that we loop the strap around the wrist but then make sure the straps are on the palm side of the hand and not the back side.

With the Leki attachment point, there really isn't any leverage to stress your thumb.? The pole is either going to move your whole hand or, in my one case of a dramatic fall, the elastic that carries the attachment mechanism just ripped off.? I didn't feel anything with my hand at all.? Also, the newer attachment mechanism has a flexible hard rubber component that will actually let you pull the glove away from pole without using the trigger release.? This would seem to be a big improvement (for the reason given below).

The biggest problem for me has been the tendency of the older trigger mechanism to pack with snow and then not be able to move enough to release when I get to the bottom of the lift and want to remove the poles. The older mechanism was a slot in the pole handle, and a plastic tab that inserted into the slot attached to the glove.? The newer mechanism is just a loop of rope that loops over a hard rubber prong on the back of the ski.? Pushing the trigger moves the retaining pin and allows the fabric loop out, the the hard rubber prong is flexible enough to allow someone to just pull the fabric loop out if necessary.

Anyway, if your skiers thumb problems came while using Leki poles I'm surprised.? I don't see anything that would allow the movement and leverage of normal straps, and I see the fact that it holds the skis pretty close to the hand as a big advantage.? Makes it very easy to just let go of poles while looking at a map or something and they stay close at hand.  I like them. The only advantage is see to normal straps is that it makes it easy to drape the pole straps over the tips of the skis when you put them in the ski rack.

[Ron]

Jim, Maybe I dont' understand how the Leki thing wokrs but if you are clicked in  and you hold the pole up and let go, does the pole remain in the plam of your hand or does it drop down free of the hand? If it stays in the palm of yor hand, it will act like a lever and fulcrum, if you fall and land with your hand open, it will just pop the thumb as it gets trapped between you and ground. Is that the case with the Leki?

[Gary]

Wow Jim...your technical swaveafair in ski pole knowledge is just astounding....I mean....I was drooling reading your technical jargon and knowledge. I mean, you've done your homework...inspirin g!

Now Ron..I agree with Jim here...first holding the straps correctly wrapped I believe would tend to diminish the likelyhood of thumb damage. Having said that.....sh_t happens.

Ron...we need to analyze your pole fulcrum and duplicate the kind of injury you have referred to in such explicit detail. I'm thinking the helmet cam should do the trick.....should be the first event at RSIII.

Lynn, I would agree that a lighter touch on the snow using the poles as a trigger mechanism makes for fewer pole airbag deployment  to the hands. Weighted pole plants have their place in "falling, catching yourself, and? harpooning a lift budger".  Pole airbags....come on...there's got to be a get rich quick possabilty there for sure....

Well Jim, I think the trigger mechanism is good but wouldn't work for me cause there's no place for me to wax it....

Me...I'm still "Strapless in Rochester"!? ?

Gary

[jim-ratliff]

Jim, Maybe I dont' understand how the Leki thing wokrs but if you are clicked in? and you hold the pole up and let go, does the pole remain in the plam of your hand or does it drop down free of the hand? If it stays in the palm of yor hand, it will act like a lever and fulcrum, if you fall and land with your hand open, it will just pop the thumb as it gets trapped between you and ground. Is that the case with the Leki?

Let's see.? Here's what it is, tell me what you think.? There is a strap around the hand/glove about the width of a normal pole strap, velcro closure. There is a thinner piece of elastic running between the thumb and forefinger and attached to the strap.? This elastic carries the attachment to the pole.? The attachment point on the pole is at the very top, so when you are clipped in and holding the pole the elastic stretches a bit because your hand is lower on the grip. When you let go, the elastic stretches a little bit and the pole drops a few inches.? So the pole is still in the vicinity of the hand, but no longer really between the forefinger and the thumb. What happens when you fall would probably be dependant on gravity and momentum, but it's not going to fall out of the way as much as a pole on a strap (or as a pole without a strap).

The one fall I described, the pole planted itseld as I was falling, and the elastic part just ripped off (no impact on the hand at all).? If you fell with your hands out in front of you, the pole might still be under the lower part of the palm, but probably not in the normal thumb/forefinger slot.? I like Gary's assessment, s__t happens.? I do like the Leki's as a sort of compromise between strap and strapless.

BTW, the Leki's also come with a normal strap that fits into the trigger. More flexibility if you sometimes want normal straps.

[gregmerz]

Hmmm... strap-on...strap-off.? Karate Kid like conundrum? ?

[Glenn]

Straps...and they need to be tight on my wrist. Ever since I was younger, I've done this: Put my hand through the strap; put excess strap between my thumb and pointer, then grab the pole. I need to feel that strap around my wrist. Maybe I have mild OCD or something. 

[Ron]

Jim, Maybe I dont' understand how the Leki thing wokrs but if you are clicked in? and you hold the pole up and let go, does the pole remain in the plam of your hand or does it drop down free of the hand? If it stays in the palm of yor hand, it will act like a lever and fulcrum, if you fall and land with your hand open, it will just pop the thumb as it gets trapped between you and ground. Is that the case with the Leki?

Let's see.? Here's what it is, tell me what you think.? There is a strap around the hand/glove about the width of a normal pole strap, velcro closure. There is a thinner piece of elastic running between the thumb and forefinger and attached to the strap.? This elastic carries the attachment to the pole.? The attachment point on the pole is at the very top, so when you are clipped in and holding the pole the elastic stretches a bit because your hand is lower on the grip. When you let go, the elastic stretches a little bit and the pole drops a few inches.  So the pole is still in the vicinity of the hand, but no longer really between the forefinger and the thumb. What happens when you fall would probably be dependant on gravity and momentum, but it's not going to fall out of the way as much as a pole on a strap (or as a pole without a strap).

The one fall I described, the pole planted itseld as I was falling, and the elastic part just ripped off (no impact on the hand at all).? If you fell with your hands out in front of you, the pole might still be under the lower part of the palm, but probably not in the normal thumb/forefinger slot.? I like Gary's assessment, s__t happens.? I do like the Leki's as a sort of compromise between strap and strapless.

BTW, the Leki's also come with a normal strap to fits into the trigger. More flexibility

OK, I am clear now, I thought that it just clipped in over the top of the gap between your thumb and index finger,  Sounds cool. I think phil uses that as well.

[Ron]

Straps...and they need to be tight on my wrist. Ever since I was younger, I've done this: Put my hand through the strap; put excess strap between my thumb and pointer, then grab the pole. I need to feel that strap around my wrist. Maybe I have mild OCD or something.?

as long as the strap doesn't hang over that gap, your fine, Some like a tight strap as they can use it as leverage to flick the pole out when poling. It's not an OCD thing anymore than many of my own OCD things... (open to interpretation....)  

you share the same sickness as all of us or you wouldn't be here.

[Glenn]

If I don't have the pole straps tight, I feel like I'm going to drop them. 

[Ron]

well, thats different, thats ocd....