Volkl Tigershark 10'

[drm313]

Greetings;

My son, Jonathan, age 19, weight 145 pounds, 67 " tall, has skied exactly 7 times in his life, and is currently skiing Black with confidence and speed. He has had 4 lessons, two of which were with me, and is simply an intuitive skier. He is trying to learn to carve, along with other progressively advanced techniques. He is a natural athlete.

He skied 4 times at Winterplace, WV, and three times at Snowshoe, WV. So far, we ski exclusively at the resorts (close to home, Blacksburg VA), meaning on eastern hardpack.

To date, all his skis have been rentals, most recently the K2 Apache Saber, whose performance is lacking, and as such we seek to purchase new equipment. The problem herein is that he is learning at such a phenominal rate we fear obsolescence err the season is over.

We seek a superb carver on eastern hardpack for both short to wide turns (though he prefers shorter radii). He is beginning to ski moguls, as well as some of the terrain park.

We are considering several ski models, including the Volkl Tigershark 10'.

1. Is the Power Switch really effective, or another marketing gimmick?
2. Is this ski, or the Volkl line itself reliable and durable? The internet contains many "hits" of poor manufacturing, especially as Volkl may soon be manufactured in China.

Would the Volkl be the better choice, or would another ski be better suited for an advanced skier? We are looking at the Atomic ST 12pb, the Atomic Drive 9 (or earlier "9" series performance ski).

I thank you for your thoughts.

[Gary]

Based on my experience with helping friends and family find a good all purpose ride:

First for his age, don't go too long, for eastern snow:

I would highly reccommend: Fischer RX8 in a 160 length...this ski is priced right, carves like a demon and can float in ankle high busted up snow and powder.

This ski is one of the main stays for Fischer and is loved by all who ski it...and again, you should be able to find a great price.

This is without a doubt a ski he can grow with.

It would be great if he could get out and demo....

Now....WHAT KIND OF BOOT IS HE IN....this is way to often over looked and THE SINGLE most important factor in skiing!

Best,
Gary

[gregmerz]

Gary speaks the truth.  Boots fitted by a professional are the first priority.  Skis come next.  Lots of good non-current ski deals abound.  Rx-8 is a great choice.

[drm313]

Gary,

Until now we had always rented our equipment.

WE went to a ski shop here in Blacksburg VA, who measures only the length of the foot, then hopes for the best. He prefers Dalbelo and Lange. Nothing fit well.

Based upon the reviews of RealSkiers, we sought out the services of a Master Boot Fitter.

We first went to Freestyle in Roanoke. The bootfitter there did not work with us, but instead passed us off to a salesperson. He measured the lengths, then began trying out boots, none of which fit at all.

Disgusted, I called Freestyle in Charlottesville, VA, who assured us we would be with a real bootfitter, so we drove 3 hours there. They measured the lengths, the widths, the flare from center, the arch, the heel and the instep, and the skeletal positioning. All but one of the boots he brought out fit perfectly. Given that ski boots in general are often referred to as medieval torture devices, this fit bespeaks volumes for the value of a "real" bootfitter.

Jonathan was put into Nordica Sportmachine, and the general manager was the one who fit us both, along with another named Rick. The Speedmachine also fit welll, cost twice as much, but the bootfitter (I do not know how) fixed the Sportmachine boots so they are far less flexive, more in line with the Speedmachine, along with custom inserts. He also fitted Jonathan with Leki contoured poles and Giro helmet (with face-guard [I am a dentist, so insisted on this]).

The boots have a maximum of 15 degrees flex (in store, less when cold). Jonathan took these and the (rental) K2s and skied superbly, though he felt the K2s too "mushy", far too slow. He tried to carve with these skis but could not get them to hold an edge without substantial skidding. We both raced down greens and blues at full speed, and yes, these skis are slow and do not grip well, and the faster we went the less stable they were, such that we both were forced to slow considerably.

I am reviewing the Fischer RX8, and am seeing the Tigershark is rated equal or better in every category by RealSkier. Are we looking at the same ski? I have found the RX8 Heat and the RX8 Fire. How do they compare to the Tigershark w/o the Power Switch, w the switch turned on and off?

Is it that the Fischers might do better in moguls? Or, do you base this on the Tigersharks are more race oriented for those learning these skills?

Am also looking at Blizzard Sonic IQ, as well as others.

Peace

[jim-ratliff]

Peace (not sure whether that's a name or a salutation, but welcome)? ?

Two big differences.

The waist width on the RX8 is 66, the waist on the TigerShark is 73, and narrower waisted skis are much easier to learn on and to get up on edge.? Peter has a couple of articles on the main site that explain the physics of this, but the farther the center of the foot is from the edge of the ski the more effort is required to tip the ski (sidecut can offset this to some degree).

The RX8 is probably available for 1/2 the price of the Tiger Shark because it has been around for several years; but it was a VERY popular and versatile ski for the past several years.? In some minds almost a classic.

I don't know any that have skied the Tiger Shark, but the reviews here are certainly very favorable, and all indications are that the Power Switch does make a difference.? However, you may also want to look at the 2008 Reviews section and check out the "Skis of the Year" in some of the other categories such as "Skill Development" and "Speed Carving".? I will admit to a certain bias, I have always found Volkl skis stiffer than really interested me, so keep my bias in mind with this.

I would certainly take Peter's comment about "this ski must be tested by the skier" to heart.

PS. I moved your post up here for fear it might not get noticed.? Due to problems with spammers, the forum software prohibits "newbies" from creating new Threads under the first heading.? Welcome.
Jim

[drm313]

James,

First, I thank you for moving the post, and for allowing me to initiate a question.

"Peace" is both a salutation, deriving from the Hebrew "Shalom" or Arabic "Salamun/Salaam", and is also an intent that I seek knowledge, and not some debate.

The established protocol for someone having skied only 7 times is an intermediate ski for learning. He skied black his very first day, not well but acceptable. By his 5th time on skis he was skiing black with confidence, and for his 7th outing was in the terrain park as well as moguls, and a very steep black course, and complaining these were all "too slow". He watched an expert making some runs, then was able to replicate the same motions on his first try, meaning he is an intuitive skier, and a natural. I regret not having taught him skiing many years ago.

At 16 he ran his first marathon, in a world class time (for his age) of 2.5 hours, meaning he is in superb physical condition. I took him to one of these resorts during the summer, for mountain biking. He rode down, then ran back to the top, carrying his bicycle.

I am looking at some of the posts in the main page, on carving skis. As such, what is the consensus on some of these race-oriented carvers within the category of "Cruiser Carvers"? Dynastar Autodrive Speed SX, Head Cyber XP70 Ti (assuming I could get it), Volkl Carver Motion, Atomic Atomic SL:9 or GS:9.

What about the Cross skis?

And YES, I am VERY impressed with what I am seeing per the Fischer RX8, as well as the Fischer RX Fire 8 Fti. I may have a new first choice...

I thank you.

[jim-ratliff]

Peace then, from me as well.? The RX8 (and others that you referenced) are not intermediate skis, so you are on the right track there.? The green-blue-black skier suitability level icons will give you good information about what skier(s) the ski is aimed at or is suitable for, but make sure you look at the definitions of the icons because the green icon doesn't imply a ski suitable only for green trails.? I consider myself a green icon skier by Peter's method.

At 16 he ran his first marathon, in a world class time (for his age) of 2.5 hours

Impressive athletic conditioning, an excellent time for any age.? My experience has been that skiing fast on black terrain doesn't indicate much about the skier.? I have often gone skiing with youth groups, the boys all tend to gravitate to the black slopes (it's a male thing).? However, only you can assess the technique and skill that he has picked up and is able to use.? I will note that I have watched Dianne Roffe (Olympic gold medalist in downhill and Super G at the 1994 Olympics) at our local hill work on technique and what is most amazing about her (and most really good skiers) is how they can ski any slope slowly and still look so smooth and elegant.? All of this is not to denigrate your sons skills, but to give you some perspective on how I interpreted what you wrote.

He watched an expert making some runs, then was able to replicate the same motions on his first try, meaning he is an intuitive skier, and a natural.

Similarly, I don't know your ski ability and don't know how objectively you are able to evaluate your son's skills.? My experience from Little League coaching is that parents often aren't objective, but that is irrelevant.? However, if you see him as a recreational skier then it sounds like he is progressing wonderfully; if you think you and he are interested in more then most local ski hills have youth racing programs (that include instruction).

I am looking at some of the posts in the main page, on carving skis. As such, what is the consensus on some of these race-oriented carvers within the category of "Cruiser Carvers"? Dynastar Autodrive Speed SX, Head Cyber XP70 Ti (assuming I could get it), Volkl Carver Motion, Atomic Atomic SL:9 or GS:9.

Skis have changed a lot recently, so I would encourage you not to get a ski that is more than 3 years old, even where they were excellent skis at the time.? The "shaped ski" revolution started farther back, but the versatility and materials have continued to change.? The Head Super Shape is a very versatile, carving ski that a number of very good skiers really like (it is Gary's and Gregmerz's primary ski).

He really needs to demo some higher end skis, and Snowshow used to have a pretty wide variety.? Most shops will apply demo prices to purchase.

Jim

[Gary]

Well Drm....peace to you too...and thank you for spreading a great word!

Jim is by no means a green icon....well he has been after 3 glasses of wine and a basket of hot chicken wings...but he speaks the truth about the RX8...this ski can take a beginner slide and glider up to the serious carving, bumping, crud busting expert. I owned this ski for a year and recently skied it Sunday...the still ski rocks....I 'm thinking your "natural" might like this skis performace.....heck ...you might like it on his days off.

The ski turns well at any speed, can be turned short and quick and is stable on medium to long turns. Jim's point about speed management on all terrain is truly the sign of a very good skier. Getting him involved with a very good instructor would start him off with excellent ski skills rather than learning from doing. AND if you can sign him up and you too if you like in a Harold Harb ski program...ah yes...father and son event...the results would be absolutely outstanding.

Sounds like you're very proud of your son....skiing is one of those sports that technique takes you further than physical condition so keep one step ahead of him in the technique department. 

There are some great skis out there for sure. Our site here reviews dozens of them. You'll find that some of us have favorites. I tend towards skis that perform well in a variety of conditions.

It's hard for a beginner skier to "know" which ski is the right one because as their technique improves, so will their ability to understand the skis best and worst performance attributes.

The boot....sounds like the Freestyle boys spent the time for the fitting...boot flex is such a personal matter for each skier. What is important is that the pilot should be able to use as little body movement and energy as possible fore and aft on the ski to pressure the tips to turn when carving and work gingerly from the center stance when skiing on powder and broken snow. Both SHOULD be able to be accomplished with appropriate flex of the boot. From your explanation, it sounds like they set the boots up with a foot bed which get's the ankles neutral in the boot....great way to start.

A nice drill on the snow to do to see if the boot is canted correctly for the pilot is on a green slope, lift your right heel up off the snow leaving the shovel on the ground or if your balance is good, lift the right ski totally off the ground. Now, let the left ski glide towards a stationary target like a tree or another person. Without moving the upper body,( or hitting either of the stationary targets) the ski should be able to track straight. If not, there is a canting issue to be resolved. Do the same on the other ski.

Nice poles by the way....get him a ski cable lock to protect your investment....nice work getting him to wear the helmet and guard....

Now Dr......you wearing a helmet?

Glad to have here with our Real Skier group....a great bunch for sure....Look forward to hearing your thoughts as your family ski experience and knowledge grows!

Best,
Gary

[drm313]

Jim,

<< I consider myself a green icon skier by Peter's method. >>

If an expert skier will state he or she is "green", then I must be still be pink. Some days I carve perfect arcs, and last ski trip I wiped out twice on green.

As for my skiing ability, I will say it exists not. That is, I skied years ago (back when I was young and immortal), but now that I am no longer young, nor immortal, nor even athletic (by comparison), and now I seem to be relearning everything, hence the wipe-out on a green earlier this week. Seriously, when last I skied (back when I was immortal), there existed not the sidecuts of today, at least not that I ever used.

Upon thorough evaluation of the data provided me, I believe you are correct. As such, we are looking into demo'ing the Fischers at Snowshoe, meaning these are our first choices now.

David

[drm313]

Gary,

Yes, I would LOVE to get Jonathan, and perhaps myself, into Harold Harb's ski school, to take our abilities higher (in my case that means no more wipeouts on green  ).

Yes, I am wearing a helmet as well. Back in my immortal days, I survived a head-on collision with a car (I was operating a motorcycle), and ever since then I have been a believer in full-face helmets, as well as other protective gear.

I even succeeded in convincing my daughter Jennifer, a boarder, that helmets look cool. She wants one now as well.

Speaking of protection, is there any form of body armor for the skier? I have seen the chest and back and shin guards, but all injuries I have had involved the shoulders.

Ski Cable Lock: Great idea. I was wondering how to protect the skis when we are indoors, once we have acquired quality equipment. I had assumed we would take turns, or if alone, secure everything in the vehicle.
Nifty.

Again, thanks for the advice.

David

[drm313]

One Final Question:

If the prices for the Fischer Fire RX8 were exactly the same as the Volkl Tigershark 10 w/ Power Switch, would you still purchase the Fischer's?

As it stands, the prices for these two systems are basically the same: $729 for the Fischers, $674 for the Volkls.

The Fischer RX8 is unavailable in the sizes we want.

The RX8 was your ski of the year for 2007, or a close runner up. The Fire RX8 is basically the same, perhaps a touch better.

The Tigershark was your ski of the year for 2008, and with the settings make it pretty much the equal, assuming the Power Switch really works, and will hold up over years, subject to freezing temperatures and condensation buildup inside the mechanism.

Your thoughts?

[Gary]

Hey David.....body armour....nix it.....Lessons..aff irmative....get them....preferably with Harb and might I add..John Clendenin. Both of these super hero's will get you scoffing at green runs. BTW....we all fall...no matter what our skill levels are. It's in our nature to dance with the mountain....sometim es you lead...sometimes the mountain does!

As far as the choice of skis...demo demo demo...

I can tell you Volkl's tadintionally have a very different feel to me. They fell like they require more attention to each turn....one might say, a bit less forgiving, at least that has been my experience with them. My weight at 156 lbs may have something to do with that for sure. That's why demo whenever possible and don't rush into a choice.

best,
G

[drm313]

We demo'ed several skis (free demo weekend), and purchased the Fischer Fire RX8 w/ Railflex (Tyrolia) bindings. Jonathan's are 160 cm, mine 165.

Of course, these skis are (in my opinion) at least one level above either of us, but they are incredible. Jonathan may I expect purchase other skis, of other types, for various conditions, etc, but I expect these will be his "fun" performance skis for years to come.

I thank all of you for your advice.

David

[Perry]

I'm about to go to a Harb ski camp and will bring my RX8 (I would like to see if the fire has some improvements - I think the turn radius is a little shorter.)

You will not be disappointed or regret that purchase.  As you say, you may want to buy something else for other purposes, but for east coast skiing, groomers, etc. they are a great ski that will be hard to out grow.  Enjoy

[jim-ratliff]

We demo'ed several skis (free demo weekend), and purchased the Fischer Fire RX8 w/ Railflex (Tyrolia) bindings. Jonathan's are 160 cm, mine 165.

David

David:  Just curious, what were some of the other skis you tried and what did you briefly think of them??

Jim