Not exactly J-Hole, but.....

[midwif]

...the conditions in Vermont were pretty good.

First off, avoid Sam's Steakhouse in Ludlow. A bad experience all around.
However, Harry's and the "Pot Belly" restaurants in and around Ludlow were lovely.
Jim and I really enjoyed a local musician after dinner at the Pot Belly.

Jim and I skied friday at Okemo. It lived up to its rep as a green/blue mountain.
Though skiing the "double blacks" made us feel falsely accomplished!

Friday night brought a nice meet up with ToddW for dinner. 
We made arrangements to meet  with him at Killington the following day.

Now, folks, hear this.....Jim had to be DRAGGED out of some very sweet glades.
He kept going back for the tree experience. ( no wood was eaten)

Todd was a great guide and showed us around Killington. Yes, it is a very big mountain.
 And was VERY patient waiting for us to come out of the trees! (he wisely opted to ski on the adjoining trail as he was helmetless)
We had lunch at the lodge at the top of the K 1 Gondola. THe views were spectacular.
And, we had  a lodge sighting of former Governor Eliot Spitzer (sans call-girl).
The next day brought us to Stratton (free lift tickets won by us both). Single digit temps, but only mild winds made it bearable.
Jim had an interesting experience on his Magnums with a new tune on them.

Next up, Solvista Basin. HH camp. And then a weekend in the Dillon area for a couple more days of skiing post-camp.

Looking forward to meeting Perry and co, and seeing Todd again.
Good skiing ALL!

[Svend]

Great report, Lynn! Any pics? Would love to check out Killington one day, as it's within a day's driving distance of Toronto.  Would you recommend it as a family place? Not just the hill, but the town, accomodations, grub...the whole deal?

So Jim...do tell! What's the story about the tune on the Magnums?

[midwif]

Svend
No pics. Forgot the camera.

We stayed in Ludlow and drove to K-ton. It was only 20 minutes to the Skye Ship Gondola from Ludlow. Given that it's also 15-20 minutes to Rutland, you could stay in either town. Rutland has more places to stay, I hear. No personal knowledge though.

However, while I am glad to have had a chance to explore K-ton a bit, I prefer Sugarbush and Stowe which are both closer for you to drive to.
THe Sugar Lodge in Sugarbush is a nice reasonable Inn on the access road to Sugarbush.
I like the variety of old New England trails, wide blue groomed, tough , nasty blacks on Castlerock and the option of Mt. Ellen for a different flavor.
Stowe had great runs and a nice town experience. I was there off-season, so the prices were more reasonable.
L.

[Svend]

Good one! Thanks for the feedback.  No plans to go to Vermont this year -- taking the kids to Lake Placid in Feb., and then maybe to Lake Louise in March to tie in to one of my business trips there.  But one day we'd like to visit Vermont, and when we plan that, I'll check in with you for more insider info. 

[jim-ratliff]

However, while I am glad to have had a chance to explore K-ton a bit, I prefer Sugarbush and Stowe which are both closer for you to drive to.

I don't believe that the above is true.? It would still require a drive around the south side of Lake Champlain and probably go right by Killington.  The ferries dont' run in the winter time.
White Face/Lake Placid is another place that I would like to ski.? If all works out well, Lynn and I are going up there early April after Utah in March.

Will post some on the tune later.? It's a longer and bit funny story.? My mouth got me in over my head (which sometimes happens, but I still enjoy it).

[Svend]

Haven't checked the map for Stowe and Sugarbush, but you're right in that getting around that long Lake Champlain from Toronto is a big detour into Vermont. 

We skied Whiteface last Feb. and had a great time.  The only place where we found the notorious Whiteface ice was at the very top, but there was a lot more mountain below that to keep us  amused for days.  BTW, they've opened up a new chair and some brand new runs this year, which will add some breadth to its already impressive height.  We saw the cuts in the woods last year, and they looked like great blue runs through the trees.  Sheltered from wind, too, it looked like.

[jim-ratliff]

So Jim...do tell! What's the story about the tune on the Magnums?

What happens when you talk a better game than you can play!!!

As we were driving around Ludlow we noticed an Art Gallery that also advertised ski tunes.? I'm a sucker for supporting entrepreneurs, and the concept of a struggling artist that was doing ski tunes to survive really caught my attention, and besides a guy that specializes in tuning skis is probably better than an employee of a shop that worked at Starbucks the prior winter.? Lynn was wanting to get her skis tuned before Harb camp at Sol Vista, so we stopped in to drop off her skis (wanted them tuned 1 degree base and 2 degree side even though she doesn't quite have the complete grasp of what the numbers mean).? Anyway, we talked to the guy a bit, an ex-racer that tuned his own skis then and just continued that work long after racing ended.? Anyway, Lynn decided to leave her skis and I nudged her and reminded her to specify the base and edge bevels.? He said that's what he would have done anyway, all seemed well.? Lynn picked up her skis next morning, skied them at Killington all day and all seemed well.

I decided that I would drop my skis off the next night for a tune as well, since the edges were showing the signs of a detour onto a closed, ungroomed, thin cover trail at Steamboat.? I asked for a 1 degree base and 3 degree side and he said no.? I asked him why, and he said that "he didn't feel like doing it.? Mentioned the hassle of edge planing, etc."? Then he said "but I'll give you a good tune, and suggested that?I would be happier with a good 1-2 tune than an average 1-3 tune."? (Background.? I've been requesting a 1-2 tune for several years now because that's what Gary recommends, but I've never been able to verify if that's what the tune is and have never been able to feel any difference.? I'm just not that good a skier.)? I picked up my skis, thanked the guy, and we headed for Stratton.? I almost couldn't ski.? I couldn't tell if I had a horrible tune or a really good tune.? Skiing across hard scraped off snow, the skis wouldn't track; on similar conditions before they would pretty much slide.? The inside, free ski seemed to have a mind of its own, grabbing an arc inside the main arc.? When I would get in the back seat (which is a problem I have) then the skis would just rail on the tails and take off (more than a little bit scary).? How badly I was struggling was obvious when Lynn suggested that "maybe we need to go inside for a bit."? I did manage to get on top of the skis a bit better by the end of the day, was able to ski a couple of black bump runs (not well, but as well as I ever do bumps), and so wasn't quite as frustrated by the time we left.

Conclusions.? When I got home, I checked and it appears that the side bevel is 3 degrees but it also feels like the base bevel is less than 1 degree, but that it is a good tune that exacerbates many of my skiing shortcomings.? On really scraped off hard surfaces, my skis have always mostly slid sideways.? These were almost able to bite, they just needed a little bit more edging than what I normally provide (so they would intermittently grab and then release).? The problem with the inside ski may be the different base bevel not releasing so easily, requiring me to be? more aware of what my feet are doing.? The behavior of the skis when I get in the back seat is a blessing in disguise, because now the skis are punishing me for my balance sins.

So the good news is that I can REALLY feel the difference between the skis with this tune and the way they were before, the bad news is that the difference and my inability to cope was really humiliating (especially since I had been skiing pretty well the day before).? On Saturday, I was loving the "green" trees at Killington and had even skied through the terrain park, taking the three progressively larger jumps and even getting a bit of air (something I avoid); on Sunday I felt like I didn't even know how to ski and was embarrassed that Lynn was having to put up with my ineptitude.

[gregmerz]

Understandable.  I think 1/3 is a bit much for the Magnums, just too demanding of a tune for that particular ski.  I have 1/2 on my Magnums and 1/3 on the original Supershapes and Supershape Speeds.  As to the effect of a change, I noticed it too.  My original Supershapes came to me with a .7/2 (according to the seller) which I skiied and enjoyed for a month or so.  They were in need of some maintenance, I was busy and I usually opt for 1/3 for a purely hard snow/ice ski which this is for me.  So into the shop they went.  The first day out with a 1/3 on the felt strange for a couple hours.  My "platform" had changed.  It took a couple of hours but I have adapted to the change and I like the additional edge grip of the ski now.

[Glenn]

VT has been really good the last few weekends. We were blacked out of our Mt. Snow passes on the 18th, so we headed to Bromley. They had about 4-6" of fresh, light powder...awesome.

Last Sunday, back to Mt. Snow. Bitterly COLD! But, it kept the crowds down. We were able to blast down a few wide open groomers at a good clip. Those Hot Rods are awesome...I can lay trenches with those things when I crank them hard.

I think southern VT got about 8-12" of snow out of yesterday's storm. We're heading up again on Sunday. Looking forward to light crowds since a lot of people should be at home watching football.

[Ron]

note: artists, shouldn't tune skis....... it's not artistic expression...

OK, 1 base, 3 side is aggressive and except for racers or race wanna-bees, it's just over kill. 1, base, 2 side is a versitile, all- around tune that will be fine on hardpack through powder. ?I use 1, 1 for my exclusive soft snow boards, its perfect and allows for easy tail release and sliding of the boards. You don't want a lot of edge for soft snow, its counter-productive.

interestingly, in speaking to a lot of locals at both steamboat and j-hole, they dont like a very fast board (meaning fast wax) as when skiing pow and off-piste, too much glide is just not a good thing in technical areas.

[Svend]

Great story Jim.  Deserves a thread of its own, actually.

Not that I've ever tried it (or perhaps I have but didn't know it), but I'm amazed when I hear that a minute change such as 1 degree more or less edge bevel can make such a huge difference.  I skied my Speeds right from the factory with whatever tune they put on (0.5/3, I think) for about 2 days before I filed them at 1/2.  Can't say I really noticed much difference, other than I found the edge grip with my tune to be better.  They were definitely sharper after I got done with them, but even with the factory tune I didn't feel any of the grabbing that Jim describes.  But then, I'm not nearly as experienced as you guys, so probably wasn't skiing in a way that would make me notice it.

[jim-ratliff]

Ohhh, I forgot one point. ?The ski tuner wasn't the starving artist, they had just divided up the front and back of the building.

Interesting point by Greg. ?I too may find I like the extra grip that I could feel on the "scraped off" sections of the slopes and in the trough of the bumps. ?Not blue ice, but still a very hard surface. ?I especailly liked that they made me more aware of what was going on at my feet. ?I have the Watea 84's for taking west, so these are strictly my east coast skis, hard snow skis. ?(but they also work very well in the trees and bumps)

Btw, I like the SuperShape Magnums a lot.

[jim-ratliff]

Great story Jim.? Deserves a thread of its own, actually.

Not that I've ever tried it (or perhaps I have but didn't know it), but I'm amazed when I hear that a minute change such as 1 degree more or less edge bevel can make such a huge difference.? I skied my Speeds right from the factory with whatever tune they put on (0.5/3, I think) for about 2 days before I filed them at 1/2.? Can't say I really noticed much difference, other than I found the edge grip with my tune to be better.? They were definitely sharper after I got done with them, but even with the factory tune I didn't feel any of the grabbing that Jim describes.? But then, I'm not nearly as experienced as you guys, so probably wasn't skiing in a way that would make me notice it.

I had never been able to feel a difference before either, and had similar thoughts wondering how other can people notice a 1 degree side bevel difference, or a 1/2 degree base bevel. 

Grabbing may be a bad description.  It was pretty cold and had been windy, so there were places where the surface was very hard and scraped off, the kind of place where you mostly slide and scrape across it.  As I would ski across it now the skis would catch and edge (stop sliding slideways) and then release (start sliding again).  At the time it was a balance challenge, but as I thought about it I believe that "just a bit more tipping" and I could have held that edge and skied across these very ungrippable sections.  The change in feel was very noticeable.

On softer snow, I really didn't notice much difference.

I have also been working on a drill that Gary shared where you tip your "non-stance" foot while skiing fairly slow, to feel the effect of that ski tipping as it pulls you into a turn.  This is a Clendenin drill, not Harb, and I could definitely feel a lot more from the ski with the new tune (and this is at slow speeds and very low angles).

[Ron]

unless it's changed, all Heads are factory tuned to a 1:1.

The tipping drill is a good example of clendenin's methods in that all turns really come from the release of edges inot a drift (intended path of the ski and body) (in clendenin speak=love spot, others, Float of ski) and then the engagement of the uphill edge; but it's important that he stresses that the skier shouldn't use one turn or turn shape, the amount of edging can vary from a pure side slip to heavy edge pressure depending on the need. But the turn should not soley come from the weighted downhill foot.

Here is an example of heavy uphill edge pressure, notice the snow coming off the uphill ski and virtually none off the downhill ski.


Most of what we skied involved very little to no edgeing during the beginning of turn and the engagement of the uphill foot on the last 1/3 of the turn into the transition.?

[jim-ratliff]

Understandable.? I think 1/3 is a bit much for the Magnums, just too demanding of a tune for that particular ski.? I have 1/2 on my Magnums and 1/3 on the original Supershapes and Supershape Speeds.? As to the effect of a change, I noticed it too.? My original Supershapes came to me with a .7/2 (according to the seller) which I skiied and enjoyed for a month or so.? They were in need of some maintenance, I was busy and I usually opt for 1/3 for a purely hard snow/ice ski which this is for me.? So into the shop they went.? The first day out with a 1/3 on the felt strange for a couple hours.? My "platform" had changed.? It took a couple of hours but I have adapted to the change and I like the additional edge grip of the ski now.

Tell me what you're thinkiing as far as 1/3 being a bit much for the Magnums?  I think I was also beginning to like the additional edge grip once I began to understand the change.