JJ's.... a first experience

[Gary]

After leaving Steamboat last week and watching numerous ski **** where skiers danced in deep snow on rocker skis, (thank you Ron) I was clearly smitten with the idea of cruising crud, busting crust, riding over surprise depressions and dancing in powder....I was drawn to the Rocker mystiqe? like a local to the Mangy Moose after skiing pow all day.

As soon as I got home I started my research and read everything I could read in mags and on line....and there it was....with resolve and some intrepidation, I decided the Aramda JJ was THE one. The 175 with 115 underfoot has a 12 meter turning radius...I liked that. It appeared to have all the hype I was eager to hear. So, I tried to order them through our local shop but they couldn't get them. Backcountry had them and with 2 day delivery, I had them under the tree for Christmas. The local shop did have their last pair of Look Pivot bindings. A retro look alike but with updated safety features. It is a sweet binding, easy on and off and performed with excellence.
So I looked and dreamed of turns on those bad boys all day Christmas and on Saturday, I went to the shop with bindings and skis in hand and had them mounted...82.5 cm back from the tails just like the factory and on line users recommended. This is 5cm behind center of the ski.

Today...was the day. We hadn't had snow in days, some rain hit with cold temps and I would not be discouraged. I waited till the sun came up, and waited 2 hours more before heading to the mountain hoping the snow would soften up. Pulled in the parking lot at Bristol and the temp was 29 deg....good coverage on the mountain, nice. I had my P8's with me just in case.

I put the JJ's on and skated up to the lift....yup...115 underfoot...skating ....at first gingerly. The boards are very light underfoot. Got off the lift and the conditions were the worst conditions I've seen in years. Golf ball ice chunks, scrapped off from the race rats covering the mountain like ants and golf ball piled ice bumps here and there. I found it interesting that when I stopped, people stared or asked questions. A group of safety patrol were perched at the top of a run and said, some "pretty fat boards there". I debriefed them like an on line expert and? headed down making sweet turns. There were the kids with their park boards who stared in disbelief. Then, I made some turns with a couple of freeride bump boys who I chatted with on the lift.

Here's what I found out...these skis can be carved, drifted or brush turned. They can be pivoted like a lazy susan. They do not like to be skied 90/10 weight distribution...I found they performed better between 50/50 and 60/40 weight distribution.? To much pressure on the downhill ski, that ski discovers a mind of its own and its' off on it's own.? Gotta tell ya the conditions were really rotten but I stayed on the JJ's for nearly 3 hours. I found a short 500 vertical run sitting in the sun with soft snow about half way through my ski days experience and it was like smushing butter with a hot blade......they loved the soft snow. Another thing I found is that for those of us that like to start the turn with the shovel and finish through the tail.... Forgettaboutit!!!.....there's no freakn' tail back there to support those kind of turns. That rocker tail is not designed for that. When I stayed centered and worked the skis using both feet, alot of uphill baby toe edge and solid pole plants, I could really ski all the crap, iceballs, and scrapped snow the mountain had to offer. I knew if I could ski those conditions with the Armada JJ's, skiing them for their intended use would be a piece of cake.

Overall experience with 115 underfoot on? ice balls and crud....I was duly impressed. With this new respect I have for this ski understanding the turn and balance issues, I long for boot high and up snow fields to let them fly. The cheetah in it's element!

Gotta tell ya, they may not be for everyone but they and my P8's will be making all my trips out west with me this year. Will post back after I get the JJ's in some deep and fluffy snow....My smiles today were there but I'm thinking I'll have an orgasmic smile after these babies touch down in a gift of knee deep.

Best,

Gary

[gregmerz]

If I hadn't read it with my own eyes I wouldn't believe it...?

[Ron]

so proud of ya!    yes, ski them more neutral, they aren't designed to be skied like a race ski, but you can arc them for sure.  you will find they will be a blast in even 6" of fresh.  The TR on a rockered or multi-dimensional ski like a R7 or the JJ is not calculated the same as traditional skis so you really have to ignore that, it's really irrelevant anyway, again, you aren't skiing it like a traditional ski. It likes to be two-footed as the overall mass of the ski is such that when it hooks up with the snow, it has a huge amount of power, much more than the surface area of a 72mm wide board, its just basic physics. I don't one foot a Nomad either, although you will notice it more on a rocker. You can really pivot it in powder from a neutral stance, it makes turns so much easier and requires so much less effort. Ira experienced that last week on his ObSeth's, although he is an expert skier; especially in powder and trees, he couldn't believe the ease of turns.  Congrats!  Try different things on them to see what works best for you but certainly drift/skid/brush or whatever you want to call it a with a little up/down (forward) with a slight tip (60/40) on the down with that slightly reaching pole plant and watch how quick they turn! is a very effective way to ski.  you will find they just plane up much better and intitate better.

[Gary]

Indeed Ron..for sure. You were the poster boy for your Hellbents carving those last season on hard pack at Vail...


and Greg my friend..

You'll be seeing those bad boys in Feb....now....I need some fresh pow to get my tootsies in!

G

[Ron]

well, kind of....  Its not really carving.   

[LivingProof]

Gary,

60 is a little old for male menopause, but, good on ya. Never say never, enjoy the experience. See what the hype is about and decide for yourself. My friend, you can ski on any ski you want, both from the technical and enjoyment perspective.

At Jackson, the non-rockered, non-super fat team members may need some earwax.

Mike

[Ron]

male menopause?? why am I so bewildered by some of the comments?? obviously, you have not had enough time on the icey slopes..... Mike, I am really hoping we get a good dump at JH so we can compare pow skiing technique ----? if you can keep up for 15 minutes or so?   I'll bring the q-tips and depends.... 

[Gary]

Hey Mike....sorry it took so long to get back to ya....I bent one of the legs on my walker trying to get to the keyboard and when I sat down I realized it was time to change my Depends.....but there, I'm dry and settled.? Now where to begin.....I have always maintained an open mind about everything in life except blue cheese.? Ski technique and equipment have always been a transitional thing for me taking me to new adventures and new abilities. I know a Rocker may not be for everyone, I for one ski boot high on my Fischer P8's with 72 underfoot with ease and love the feel. But...wisdom and impact with an Aspen causing severe discomfort with a detached bicep tendon taught me that skiing in areas off the groomed trails whether in or out of bounds has risk that I can help mitigate...>float is big in that arena...with logs and ski snakes hiding just beneath the surface, I look for any and all insurance I can to ski healthy for years to come. Now, watching the kind of terrain I've seen people ski Rockers in, the smoothness and how fluid they are in transitions, I just loved the ease for which they glided, floated and turned down the mountain.
At Jackson, if the snow is boot high and above,...we hope....I'll be playing with skis that are simply a blast to turn with using all the same ski skills I use with my P8's. Before I knew any here, I skied a pair of Fischer 99cm carvers for 2 years with no poles and it was great learning experience.? But hey.....I've always been a progressive free thinker...so...I'm sure there there will be more to talk about when the big snow falls. Maybe I'm just a guy who wants to see what the future offers now...did I tell ya I hate blue cheese!?!? G

[Ron]

Naah gary, its much more fun to use so much more energy and being so deep in the snow you run risks of hooking up tips... I enjoy getting tired out early and not getting into low angle pow shots where my skis get stuck whenthere's not enough pitch-- It's so much more fun. Skinny skis are so stable in wet, heavy snow or piles frozen meringue, they just glide over it, I also love dropping off rocks and getting air on skinny skis, they make landings so much fun, soft, stable and they distribute the engery on impact so well. They are also so much easier to slide the tails and smear turns in powder, you just lay them over and they are so smooth.....?

Mike, maybe this kind of technolgy is more of your liking   

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/89689/stay-dry-fanny-flap-20-off-for-epicski-members#post_1166596

[Gary]

Point well taken when heading off of 1-3 feet of powder on a formerly groomed trail....

Having peace of mind with "float" is a great benefit skiing off trail.....this I know "you maniac"!

Now....please arrange for multipe feet of snow for our Aspen and Jackson Hole Adventure!

G

[jim-ratliff]

Gary:

So what was the length of those Nomads that you used to ski??

Inquiring minds probably want to know!!   

[Gary]

THose Nomads are actually Pilgrims at 90 underfoot and 169 in length...so the difference in the lenght is not discernable.

I'm thinking I'll hold on to the those Pilgrims for eastern spring snow days.

So....are ya thinking you might join us for some cat skiing in Aspen....you'll need some fat boys...

Any thoughts?

G

[jim-ratliff]

THose Nomads are actually Pilgrims at 90 underfoot and 169 in length...so the difference in the lenght is not discernable.

I'm thinking I'll hold on to the those Pilgrims for eastern spring snow days.

So....are ya thinking you might join us for some cat skiing in Aspen....you'll need some fat boys...

Any thoughts?

G

Nope, no "cat skiing" for me.? I am at least 2 years behind you (and Ron) in ski abilities and I clearly remember your cat skiing experiences of two years ago (and you have both grown a LOT in skis and skills since those days).
I'll settle for exploring Aspen and seeing if I can merge what John teaches with what I understand of what Harald teaches.

[Perry]

Here are some thoughts regarding the trials of being a lurker with a small quiver on this forum.

I keep thinking that the smart way to go about getting a western ski is to buy one that is a year of so old. ?But here is the problem; several years ago Ron had me convinced that my skiing life wouldn't be the same unless I got some IM 82's, ?right as I was ready to pull the trigger, the 78's came out. More maneuverable and a possible classic to be talked about for years. ?I was really considering getting some 78's at 177 and started reading about Icelandic skis. ?Oh, how the folks on this forum made them seem like the most wonderful winter conveyance since wood slats. ?I loved the graphics, the performance in bumps, trees, deep powder. ?I loved everything that I read about them. ?I was ready to pull the trigger on some pilgrims..........b ut wait..........Gary now is making these JJ's seem so cool!!! ? ? ?

Confusion again ? ?

Do I dare ask for help here?!! ?I can't wait to here the helpful advise to come.

[midwif]

THose Nomads are actually Pilgrims at 90 underfoot and 169 in length...so the difference in the lenght is not discernable.

I'm thinking I'll hold on to the those Pilgrims for eastern spring snow days.

So....are ya thinking you might join us for some cat skiing in Aspen....you'll need some fat boys...

Any thoughts?

G

I don't like my boys too fat!

And while the skiing mind and body are willing, the pocket is sadly flat after paying for other wonderful ski adventures!
So, maybe another year. I would love to experience that kind of skiing.

Look forward to hearing about it over some beers!