New Lange RS series boot

[Ron]

http://image.dynastar.com/Dyna/Lange%20RS%20130/RS%20How%20it%20was%20developed.pdf

hearing excellent things about this boot. Check it out. I would prefer the 110 personally

[Svend]

Ron, not sure if Lange built the Comp Pro in a similar way, but I bought a pair last fall and absolutely love them.
http://www.langeskiboots.com/ca_en#/products/lb91060-comp-pro

Extremely responsive, excellent quickness, perfect anatomical fit for my foot (97mm last), and for such a minimal liner, they are very warm.  The only tweaks needed were canting adjustment and a small punch-out around the ankle pocket.  The Comp Pro and Super Comp apparently used a new anatomical shell design -- same as the RS....? I will check into this.....

[Ron]

my understanding is it's a new boot, new liner. More upright (4mm). Did you look at the PDF?

[jbotti]

I read the PDF. They tell you everything except what I really care about which is the last width. It's also unclear if the liner is a lace-up liner or not. It appears that many boot co's are designing boots to actually match what the shape of feet. Head did this with the Raptor years ago and Lange has come with several new last designs. It's about time.

Ron, you can easily soften a 130 into a 110 flex.

I have heard many people say that race/plug boots aren't for most people. I can't ski in anything else. Once you get a plug boot to fit properly, you can never go back!!

[Svend]

Yes, I read the PDF.  The shell looks different from the Comp Pro, so I suspect it is not the same, but as you say, a whole new boot.  However, I have read that Lange made great strides (pardon the pun  ) in anatomical fit with their redesign of the Super Comp and Comp Pro a couple of years ago.  Seems that this new boot is an extension of that experience.

BTW, my Comp Pro are 120 flex, but I don't find them overly stiff.  It's all relative depending on the manufacturer - flex varies from one to the other.  When testing boots, I found the Lange at 120 was about the same as a Falcon 110; softer than a Raptor at 120; and way softer than a Tecnica Dragon at 120.  Longer and smoother flex range of motion than all of them, though, which I really liked.  You can also take two bolts out of the Achilles area to soften the flex.

[Ron]

its a 98 last. non-lace up.  it's been reviwed and discussed on EPIC with very strong reviews and comments.

I don't want a race boot!  I don't want a stiff boot! 

all flex's are relative. I prefer a softer flexing boot for all day off-piste use. I don't really ski that often on groomed runs.

[Svend]

To put it into your context, I felt that the Comp Pro at 120 was slightly stiffer (with achilles bolts in place) than the Krypton with the stiff tongue insert.? I didn't try them side-by-side in the same shop, so just going on impressions and memory.? Not sure how the Lange would compare with the achilles bolts removed.? Probably pretty close.? ?Long range of fore-aft flex is similar, which is something I liked on both the Krypton and the Comp Pro.? And the flex is smooth and progressive.? Very nice.....? I can wear mine all day, and in cold weather -- they are comfortable, although a bit sparse on the padding below the foot.  Be reassured, they are not a race boot; just a no-nonsense, no-gimmicks, performance boot.

Let me know if you try the RS.....

[Ron]

I will be trying both for sure. I know the Scorp's are around but not sure when the RS's hit the states.

[Svend]

Yeah, I read about the Scorpion on Epic.  Interesting.....  Actually, the boot I really wanted to buy was the Krypton Cross, but it was just not available in Canada.  Wanted to try the top-of-the-line Proton 15 as well, but same story....only in the USA.  Kept searching and found the Lange, and am very happy with it.  Very similar flex characteristics.  No regrets....

[LivingProof]

Lange - the boots of my much younger days on skinny  & 

As I have a narrow and am free of foot or leg issues, Langes should be a good match, and, at some future time, I'd like to try the RS. When I upgraded my last boots, Lange's were the first brand I tried, but, immediately my feet told me that my bootfitter and I would have to become very good friends if I bought them. Life is just too short to wear uncomfortable ski boots.

Ron and I have both had work done on our boots by our bud, Stephen, who lives in Jackson Hole. Stephen fits people using 3 round dowels to determine optimum boot length. He takes out the liner and inserts your foot to have the toe just touch the boot front. He then places a dowel into the space between the rear of the boot and your heel. The narrowest dowel is about the size of a pencil, if this fits the space between your heel and the rear of the boot, Stephen calls this the "race" fit. Not much space at all. He calls the widest dowel the "comfort" fit, and, the mid-size dowel is the "performance" fit. Most times, when working with existing boots, he just shakes his head and tells the owner that he was sold something much too big.

Flex? My Speedmachines have a dual flex setting. Honestly, it does not make a difference which I use. That may be because I try to remain more centered and use tipping motions to turn. And that just may be a function of being an east coast skier. If I spent a lot of time off-piste, I'd investigate other techniques and equipment. Just don't have the need or time or access to that technology. Form follows function as we engineers say.

Looking at the Lange ad, it just screams "MARKETING"! Reminds me of reading through Golf Magazine and the various club manufactures touting this year's great technology. I believe in being just behind the bleeding edge of technology. Let someone else de-bug it, and, get objective reviews of users.

[Ron]

Mike all good and valid points. The new boots, scorpion and RS represent the new thinking in fit and setup- both going to a more anatomical design, newer materails, progessive smooth flex, lower ramp angles and less foreward lean. Although not revolutionary, the boots do mark the change to upright, neutal posture, stacked leg/body porstioning and less is more. the liners have been gratly iproved now that inuition and others out there are raising the bar and forcing the manfacturers to build better performance/fit

[jim-ratliff]

Gary was the first that I heard suggesting using a dowel rather than fingers.  Works very well.  I'm not sure what sizes he uses (probably 1/4", 1/2" and 3/4"") but my 'boot consultant' also has a 1/2" dowel that she uses for boot fitting; both hers and mine.  1/2" seems like a very reasonable number.  In addition to length, I've also found it very informative to move my feet around side to side in the shell to get a feel for how the width of the liner feels for my foot.  Same guidelines, if you want 1/2" fore and aft then you want about 1/4" on each side of your foot, so that's a pretty close fit as well.  That pretty accurately told me where I would need some extra room in my current boots (Head Raptor 120's that have been softened, but a 98mm last).

[Ron]

the dowel trick is an old fitter's tool that works, the comfort fit is also known as the tourist fit   .5 is adequate .25 when fitter properly IMHO is there you want to be. With .25 and a possible tweak to the toe box and sixth toe should provide just enough room for sll day comfort but no extra room. But your point regarding lateral room/space is dead on, almost more important! Keep in mind that as shells sizes increase, so doe the last, do even if a boot is marketed as a 98, and you are in a 28, good chance the last is 100 or more. Many base last on 26 or 27 (pretty sure its 26)

[LivingProof]

 my 'boot consultant' also has a 1/2" dowel that she uses for boot fitting; both hers and mine.

Jim,
Nothing better than having your own "personal" boot consultant.  Our bootfitting bud, Stephen, claims never buy boots from someone who does not ski at least 100 days a year, a bit self-serving.

Did you have HH et al work on your boots?

But back to Marketing 101. I'm not an IT guy (or a marketing guy), but, my understanding is that IBM sales persons always told prospective customers "it'll be so good" and that line became an inside joke to both buyer and seller. And to all my Real Skiers friends, pardon the cynic in me. He was raised an abused consumer.

[jim-ratliff]

Jim,

Did you have HH et al work on your boots?

My feet are pretty ordinary and neutral, so haven't felt the need to use HH for boots, only for footbed (which deals with my forefoot varus).   I did some shell sizing and then Lynn found  a $300 web deal on some Raptor RS 120's in a 26 (in the clear anthracite), and there is a pretty good ski shop (SkiCenter in DC) that did a little bit of grinding over the big toe joint, the little two joint, inside front of the ankle and just a bit in the heel. They are actually one of the ski shops that submits cards to Peter, I believe.

Actually, I use my ski footbeds as bike footbeds in the summertime.  Noticeably better feel on the pedals.