Skiing in 2 days!!

[jbotti]

As everyone knows I am headed out to Colorado to ski with Harald Harb and Thor Kallerud. I have a friend from the east coast who is joining us. We are skiing 3 days at Loveland and the conditions look pretty nice (the got almost 3 feet last week and have been making snow every day since). I will be skiing the Chariots and I am in touich with Dvae at Ski logik. I doubt I will take out the Howitzer especially in these conditions. I hope to spend a few minutes with Dave and have him show me all his skis and walk me through how they are constructed and the thinking behiind their design.

On another front, I have pretty much decided to get a pair of Dodge Boots. Harald continues to ski this boot and continues to say that the advantages over plastic are immense. As well, a friend of mine found a pro freestyle/freeride skier who is using the boots. He has found several easy ways to loosen the flex and is just raving about the boot in bumps and in exterme off piste conditions. Knwowing that you can adjust the flex with tightening or loosening one bolt makes these boots incredibly versatile. When you factor in the increased performance, it's hard (at least for me) not to spend the money. Lastly, it appers that the last of the Didge is actually 98mm. Becaue of this it appears that my Nordica foam linesr should fit perfectly into the boot, making the transition close to seamless. We will see!!

I will post reviews of both when I get back next week.

[jim-ratliff]

John:

Sounds like you are going to have a great time.? Decent early snow, boots to demo, skis to demo, good skiers to demo with!? WOW.

I'm curious.? Is Dave actually in Colorado a lot?? I had the impression that he ran the production facility and that "climbhoser" (the name on some other forums) was actually handling the sales functions and that you were probably demoing through one of the local shops??

Enjoy!!? And tell me how well the skis appear to have held up to actual use and scrapes and dings and stuff from being in the "demo fleet".

PS. Did I mention that I'm a little bit jealous?? 

[Gary]

JB...can't wait to hear your feedback on the skis. WOW>...pulling the trigger on the boots...kudo's...

again...can't wait to hear if the price is equal to the hype.....I really love the bolt for the flex adjustment...hope to start seeing something like what Dalbello is doing or the bolt idea....really would help a ton of peeps!

Let um rip JB....and keep us posted! Say hi to HH for me!
 
Best, Gary

[jbotti]

Jim, so far Dave has yet to get back to me. I sent him an email yesterday and usualy he comes back real quick. Maybe he is not in Colorado. Hopefully I will get set up to demo the skis.

Gary as for your comment on $'s versus perfrormance, I recently spoke about this with a friend. I spend the entire summer training on my bike to see if I can produce a 2-3% increase in my power output on the bike which hopefully produces a commensurate decrease in my time in a race or hill climb. Hence to pay $1500 for something that might actually help by 5% seems like a bargain. Stiill at the core, I know that I don't need these boots and maybe only WC racers do. The question for me or for anyone is whether I can get $1500 of additional enjoyment out of these boots. Based upon what I have heard, I think that I can. One carved arc at speed that I would have not been able to do before on plastic boots and the skis have paid for themselves. Now if I can learn to consisitently make that turn over and over again, then it's almost as if the boots are paying me to ski in them!!

No matter what happens it should be fun!!

[LivingProof]

JB,

I say "go for it"! I've been w/o internet for a couple of days but was thinking that once you got into these boots, then a demoing opportunity would become very probable buying opportunity. Similar to demo'ing Kastle 88's. If nothing else, the forum will get a great read on that boot via your review. In the PMTS forum, Harald continues to give it a great review as a tipping machine plus excellent edge hold and states that a good recreational skier should benefit.

I wonder if they are the future and all other boot manufactures have to follow suite? If racers who use them get results, then all others have to transition. We'll have a world of junk race boots.

Enjoy the early season, I need about another month to get to southern VT.

[jim-ratliff]

John:

As a backup, "climbhoser" is on Epic ski and has some sales relationship with Ski Logik.
There are now several Colorado dealers listed on the Ski Logik home page, including shops in Dillon and Breckenridge (and one in Truckee? )

And Bent Gate in Golden

[Ron]

Hey have a ?great time! If you like the boots buy them. ?I am sure HH will (or should) be giving you a pro-form rate on them anyway so enjoy them; the money is long forgotten for the enjoyment you will have with them.

[jbotti]

The big issue with the Dodge boots and should be true for all CF boots until they hit mass market volumes is that they are exepnsive to make and the margins right now are real low. I think the delaers are paying $1200 for a boot that they sell for $1500. That is versus more like 100% markup on plastic boots (boots that the dealer/retailer sells for $750 cost him $375). As well where as Nordica may be maing a 40-50% gross margin whenn they sell their boots to a retailer, I think Dodge is taking very low margins right now to get their product out there, and that doens't include the ones they are giving away to WC ski racers. My point with all this is that I think we are a long way away from this becoming a mass market product. Certianly if some of the big boot cos decide to develop competing product with CF, we shoud see manufacturing costs comes down and ultimatelly that will drive adoption and ultimatley prices will come down. I don't think this will be a quick process.

[jbotti]

Thanks Ron.

[jim-ratliff]

John:  I have a different thought for you.  What's the expected life from the Dodge boots vs the Raptor 150's??  Given your alignment, you could justify the purchase just in lasting twice as long as plastic boots and not needed to go through the fitting headaches.  I was utterly amazed at your 13 degree alignment challenge, especially since I've seen the videos of how well you ski.  Pretty amazing.

Hmmmm.  Boots for life with a new liner every 3-5 years and replaced canting plates on the bottom of the boot as needed??

[Ron]

once they get the flex adjustment and the ease of entry/exit resolved, (which they will) this will become the stantard. no doubt.

My Ibis is a CF frame, solid, durable and super light. This was said to not be possible either.

F-it!  If he likes the boots and can afford them (which I am pretty sure he can) just get them because you like or want them. No rationalization required. 

I just bought a pair of Crank Brothers Cobalt wheels, I don't need them, I wanted them and they were on sale. No rationalization. I will enjoy them every time I ride the bike.

[jbotti]

Yes, many things we don't need and buy can give us great joy!! As long as our joy does not become dependent on the the things that we buy!! A good friend of mine likes to say jokingly, "I'd rather have what I don't need that to need what I don't have!"

Jim on boot life I can tell you that my Raptors have 140 days on them and they look like they easily could handle another 140+. Someone once told me that boots have about a 150-200 day max life. Mine will last much longer than that. Harald and Diana skied in their RD 96 boots for 5-6 years and they average 150-175 days per year. That's a lot of days on those boots. I guess you are right that CF boots could last much longer, maybe 500-1000 days. If so they will be cheaper than plastic boots over their life (assuming they last 1000)!!

[jim-ratliff]

...? my Raptors have 140 days on them and they look like they easily could handle another 140+.

Yes, I had heard the 150-200 range as well.
I assume custom liners?? Do you think the liners will last that long as well??

Harald/Diana approaching 1000 days is surprising to me.? Wow.

[Gary]

Hey JB...hell, we can't take it with us and I agree, if one can detect a true difference....it makes all the sense in the world...at least that's always been my approach.

Boots MAKE skiing more accurate if they're set up right. Knowing what fit, flex and performance to look for is absolutely KEY! By now...I'm sure you know exactly what you need or want. I'll be very interested in hearing if that 5% increase in performance is there and noticeable and WHERE it is noticeable. I mean this is the biggest thing to hit the industry since shaped skis and could actually have a huge impact on boots of the future.

Hey Jim I agree with JB..boots today can be ridden hard and put away wet....well not the liners...if the bottoms aren't worn and the buckles aren't broke then a liner can be replaced. However, what I've found in the past that usually after 4 seasons on a pair of boots as my ski skills improved, new boots were in order to move me to the next level. Right now I'm extremely happy with my modified Raptors and of a mindset that life for my ski feet couldn't get any better? ...hmmmm....who am I kidding?!?!?

G

[Ron]

this ^ comment is from a guy who just took 1mm of his zeppas........