Have you ever wondered...

[Gary]

Have you wondered how many skis tested by magazines or web sites got bad reviews because of a mounting point on a ski that made the ski feel squirrely or unruly...?
Ok..I have....I tested for Ski Press years ago and did not understand the impact of where my center mass CM affected that skis performance. IT"S HUGE! I really believe that anyone demoing a ski should keep some basic concepts in mind...you all may have some other points to add but here's a start.

When demoing a ski.
The skier should feel that in getting the ski to respond, fore and aft presssure should be fairly equal.

If the tails wash out, the binding is too far forward.

If the shovels are difficult to engage the binding may be too far back.

As far as I know, all demo bindings can be cheated forward or rearward....my point is to find that spot that you feel balanced on the ski.

For me historically, I need to have my skis mounted 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch forward of standard mount.

So make your riding a happier experience, let the shop know after your first few turns...it might make the difference in your demo experience...Happy riding...g

[jim-ratliff]

Gary:

Do you find that 1/2-3/4" number to be true for all skis, or do "Austrian" skis such as Head, Atomic, Fischer, Elan, Nordica need to be more forward than "French" feeling skis like Solomon, Dynastar, Rossignol?

I still have to experiment with my Ullr's Chariots, but I think the bindings need to go forward a bit for groomed snow trails; at least that's what the old ball of foot over center of running surface measurement would say.

[Perry]

I have found that ball of foot mounted at center of running surface has been a good starting point for me.  Rarely do I end up liking them in another position unless I am going into crud/powder when I will move them 1.5 cm back.

[Gary]

Interesting..... Ok...my Head, JJ's and Kastles,...skis I can remember most recently both needed to be moved forward....My Rossi S3's are right on from the factory.

Because I'm skiing much more upright than in the past, I find my current mounting point allows me to pilot my moved forward skis on groomed, crud and powder. Once there, I don't move them.

I should look at the ball of foot relative to center of running surface and see where I'm skiing. My binding mounting position has relied mostly on my "Spidy" sense, but worked out well over the years.

Jim I think it's important? to recognize that that one should be able to put equal amounts of pressure fore and aft to get the ski to do what you want. If it's taking more work to start the turn than to finish, I'd move the bindings up 1/2 inch. I can tell you from my most recent experience with my Kastles...I moved into an entirely new dimension of performance over that ski...it handles superbly forward for me, noticeably different and better.
Perry, rather than moving the binding back, maybe getting taller in your stance and trying to be more upright and working off the center of your skis when skiing powder....especiall y if they are right on the money on the groomed snow.

Best, G

[LivingProof]

Who cares about demo skis and where they are mounted?

Be much more concerned about where the bindings are mounted on skis that you buy. How do you really know it's correct for you when that non-adjustable binding is permanently attached? The common knowledge of where to place is a lot more of a guideline than science.

The other issue, and in my mind a much larger factor, is your body position. If your weight is back on the heels, then how do you weight the tips?? My non-objective opinion based on looking at still photographs is that most of us  ski in a too far-back position. Heck, even looking at still's of Harald it sometimes appears his weight is back and he frequently acknowledges that flexing movements do place a skier in a rearward position that needs forward readjustment later in the turn.

How does each of us get feedback to determine if we are actually neutral with hips roughly above feet. Look at hand positions in stills and it's common to see them in a position that tends to weight the heels. I took a racing clinic last winter and hand position was my single greatest improvement from the instructors. It seems that I didn't get it right over 6 weeks. All I need to do to confirm this is to look at several pics of me from last winter and I'm not liking what I see.

With respect to getting binding position right, I'm thinking that all future binding purchases will be limited to for/aft adjustable bindings like the Marker Griffon demo bindings on my 88's or the Head Power Rail that Jim has on his Chariots.

But then again, I can be wrong!

[Perry]

I agree completely.  The only possible exception would be if you knew exactly where you like your boots on a particular ski.  My guess is that Gary rarely moves his bindings or feels the need to move them once he has them dialed in.  Of course the other advantage of a movable binding is resale, and the ability to swap.  That in it self makes it worth having for me.

[Gary]

Excellent points guys...Mike....I think the ole rule "know theyself" truly applies.
 It took me a number of years to really find my center point in my boots..even making micro adjustments at the beginning of this season.

That's why I focus on finding that "neutral" stance in my ski boots from which you have the best postion to command fore/aft input to the skis.

In my case, i needed to move my bindings to achieve that goal. Once there, works for all conditions.

My point when demoing skis is that many skiers are not quite tuned into their balance point in their boots or perhaps they like their current stance as other mitigating factors like hand placement or arm movement, turning, twisting, steering, rotating all have affect on how the skier motors down the mountain. In all those cases, each rider would have a better demo experience if they understood the affect of the binding location has on that ski. That demo could have a completely different performance no matter what ski style or balance point you have with a 10-15mm binding change fore or aft.

But I agree that having an adjustable binding that allows the rider to make those decisions is brillant and certainly having a ski without lots of holes for resale....is a huge plus.

Best, g