The Key To Better Off Piste Skiig

[jbotti]

As everyone here knows I tend to work pretty hard on my skiing and I have driven myslef to become a better skier every year. So far I have been able to make marked changes in my skiing each year since I started in December of 2002. As everyone here also knows I am a big fan of PMTS and I have modeled my skiing in this fashion, but what I have learned this year about off piste skiing is not exclsusive to PMTS skiers. This realy is the key to good off piste skiing.

What I was noticing was that my techniue and form was excellent on piste but when I found myslef in steeps or large bumps it would often disappear. I kept on going back to easier terrain to work on my technique and then coming back to steeper terrain to see if it would hokd up. Sometimes it would and sometimes it would not. I could not figure out why sometimes I skied well and sometimes I did not until one day when the lightbulb went on.

So here it is and it is very simple, good off piste skiing requires one thing above all else (which means that it is necessary compenent but not necessarily a sufficient compnent for those that have taken logic) and this is proper for aft balance. I know it sounds so simple but it is much easier said than done. What most people (including me unntil this season) do in steep off piste terrain is they cut their first turn, get way back during it because they are feraful and uncertain and then the skis run out from under them. Because of this they are going much faster than they want to and when they try to turn or even pivot, they have so much weight on their tails that the ski will not turn. So they are left with the bleed off traverse where the go sideways until they bleed off enough speed so they can stop recenter and then attempt the next turn. Now I know that I am not the only that has experienced this and I see it all the time on the mountain when I look at skiers. When you are back on your skis, the tails will not come around!! On groomers you can actually get back and force the skis to come around but not off piste in crud, chop and powder. Having said that when your weight is forward your speed in each turn is slower, and you can turn when every you want because the tails will come around because there is not any weight on them. To some degree rockered skis try to eliminate this issue because you can pivot a rockered tail even when it is loaded with weight. No wonder so many intermediate skiers love them.

Now it is not easy to stay forwrad in really steep off piste terrain. But I have found that if you force yourself to stay forwrad and if you pull your feet back in every transition, it is amazing what occurs. The steeps have become fun and easy for me. In bumps, you have no shot of skiing them if you don't get forward in each transition. When you get this right in bumps they also become fun and easy.

I know that with real diligence and effort I have made huge strides with this one key or focus. I pass it along and hopefully others will benefit from this as well.

[meput]

Jbotti, I agree with your epiphany re: the importance of fore/aft for off piste skiing. I would add fore/aft is very important for skiers as they transition from easier terrain to more difficult terrain. As skiers move up to more difficult terrain, they tend to be timid, less aggressive in a forward stance and therefore end up aft on their tails. The moral of the story: the more difficult the terrain, the greater the importance of foot/feet pull back to maintain a forward stance.

Also be weary of being video'd on steep, broken snow terrain, skiing on Head KERS Supershapes? .

[jbotti]

As painful as that wipeout was (mentally and not physically) it really was some of my best skiing before I got launched.

[Gary]

My personal thoughts are that while being constantly aware of fore/aft balance, I find in skiing pow, bumps, broken snow that I have better control of my edge transitions and float if I'm skiing centered without having the shovel of the ski loaded.

Being able to move back and forth pressuring of the ski tip through tail from what I call the "command" position, equally centered fore and aft on the ski, gives me the necessary time to react to what the varied conditions and steeps dictate.

Effective pole plants, keep pulling the free foot back, tipping, drift/float and counter/good body angles round out the necessary tools for me.

As for me on Rockered skis...they can be more difficult for an expert skier who likes to use the enitre length of the ski, tip to tail. I had to learn how to really stay centered and on the shins when the need was there but they make skiing broken snow and pow for me more pleasureable...espe cially the heavy wet variety of snow. THe tails of rockers can be used to bleed off speed in pow by pressuring both tails at the same time..very cool...iI've done it....like droping an anchor.

G

[SCSA]

I still follow what the Skunk teaches. No one lays out the movements like the Skunk does. But he's not a god, he wipes just like I do. 

Then I ski a lot.

For me, I push myself. I look for weird snow to practice in, in fact the weirder the better. I go to Highlands, do at least 2 bowls full. I practice on flat runs going back to the lift. I ski a lot of bumps, because bump skiing makes my other skiing so much better. I work on balance, all the time. I stay in shape, I try to live right on the planet. I don't push my luck, though. At the Beav Chute 44 is wicked steep. I ski it, but not when I'm not feeling good. I can't get better if I'm hurt.

I'm always thinking about my hands. If my hands are slow, so are my feet. My hands also keep me in balance. I never want to let my inside hand fall behind.

Specifics. Skidding is a useful move, for sure. But it's not a primary move. For example the bumps around here are narly and I have to skid some to get around the alligator noses (made by snowboarders).

[Gary]

Love that....slow hands slow feet...you hit the nail on the head!

[meput]

This is making the assumption that the hands and feet are hard wired? . There are times that I ski when it feels like my feet are not wired to any control apparatus and they are doing what they feel like doing - good or bad? !!? !!!??

[HighAngles]

Fore/aft - yes, definitely a huge key to steep off-piste skiing, but there is one other movement that I have to remember to stress every time I'm in that stuff - Counterbalancing (CB).  Not only do we see most skiers getting caught back on their tails (stuck and hunting for place to turn with their up extension) they also are severely inclinating into the hill.  Jbotti with all your work with HH I can imagine that your CB is pretty solid these days, but what I know is that CB is not an intuitive skiing movement.  People get the whole idea of fore/aft and being in balance, but 99% of skiers all ski primarily using inclination to achieve their edge angles rather than strong tipping with CB.  In the steeps I think it is the lack of CB that is the first thing to go - it's human nature when fearful to try to "hug the hill".

[Gary]

Great thoughts .....my ski thought that keeps me in strong CB is always keeping my upper body moving just ahead of my feet. Like the old saying throwing yourself down the mountain.

But you're absolutely right..strong CB skill is a huge ski skill to own!

[bushwacka]

As everyone here knows I tend to work pretty hard on my skiing and I have driven myslef to become a better skier every year. So far I have been able to make marked changes in my skiing each year since I started in December of 2002. As everyone here also knows I am a big fan of PMTS and I have modeled my skiing in this fashion, but what I have learned this year about off piste skiing is not exclsusive to PMTS skiers. This realy is the key to good off piste skiing.

What I was noticing was that my techniue and form was excellent on piste but when I found myslef in steeps or large bumps it would often disappear. I kept on going back to easier terrain to work on my technique and then coming back to steeper terrain to see if it would hokd up. Sometimes it would and sometimes it would not. I could not figure out why sometimes I skied well and sometimes I did not until one day when the lightbulb went on.

So here it is and it is very simple, good off piste skiing requires one thing above all else (which means that it is necessary compenent but not necessarily a sufficient compnent for those that have taken logic) and this is proper for aft balance. I know it sounds so simple but it is much easier said than done. What most people (including me unntil this season) do in steep off piste terrain is they cut their first turn, get way back during it because they are feraful and uncertain and then the skis run out from under them. Because of this they are going much faster than they want to and when they try to turn or even pivot, they have so much weight on their tails that the ski will not turn. So they are left with the bleed off traverse where the go sideways until they bleed off enough speed so they can stop recenter and then attempt the next turn. Now I know that I am not the only that has experienced this and I see it all the time on the mountain when I look at skiers. When you are back on your skis, the tails will not come around!! On groomers you can actually get back and force the skis to come around but not off piste in crud, chop and powder. Having said that when your weight is forward your speed in each turn is slower, and you can turn when every you want because the tails will come around because there is not any weight on them. To some degree rockered skis try to eliminate this issue because you can pivot a rockered tail even when it is loaded with weight. No wonder so many intermediate skiers love them.

Now it is not easy to stay forwrad in really steep off piste terrain. But I have found that if you force yourself to stay forwrad and if you pull your feet back in every transition, it is amazing what occurs. The steeps have become fun and easy for me. In bumps, you have no shot of skiing them if you don't get forward in each transition. When you get this right in bumps they also become fun and easy.

I know that with real diligence and effort I have made huge strides with this one key or focus. I pass it along and hopefully others will benefit from this as well.

you have a good start but in the trickiest most dynamic turns turn in off piste situations a purposeful aft transtion that you end up in the front of your boot prior to the fall line is usually one of the better move you can make. It ironically keeps you our of the backseat in the fall line and lets you generate alot higher edge angle while in the fall line. Ala the Korean Demo team.

On the rocker ski thing, have you ever actually skied a rocked ski? You statement shows a real lack of understanding and leads me to believe you never have. On a rockered ski leaning back to much usually spells disaster as there is no tail to catch you. All of my non race skis;skis have some sort of tail rocker on them. Leaning back on one usually means wheeling out, generally you try to drive the tip as much as you can since A. it probably wont sink B. the tail is scary.

but yeah have you ever actually skied on a rockered ski or are you just talking about something you have NEVER tried?

[jim-ratliff]

Bushwacka:

On the rocker ski thing, have you ever actually skied a rocked ski? You statement shows a real lack of understanding and leads me to believe you never have.

I would prefer that you would find a way of expressing your opinion without making characterizations of other skiers.
Telling another that "you have a real lack of understanding" is too personal, and probably doesn't do anything to convince them to listen to your point of view.

[bushwacka]

Bushwacka:

On the rocker ski thing, have you ever actually skied a rocked ski? You statement shows a real lack of understanding and leads me to believe you never have.

I would prefer that you would find a way of expressing your opinion without making characterizations of other skiers.
Telling another that "you have a real lack of understanding" is too personal, and probably doesn't do anything to convince them to listen to your point of view.

point taken.

I think I just met this guy in person and from the sounds of it he never has skied on a rockered ski. Why would anyone comment on something you have never tried? Wouldnt that be just speculation?

[jim-ratliff]

Speculation would be one word, BS would be another.      I think most forums have people who express opinions from  points of view of lesser or greater skills.  (and I'll voluntarily put myself in the lesser skills category).  My guess would be that you didn't meet jbotti, but that's not really relevant.

My main point is that I would like for everyone to get treated respectfully.  I would like the discussions to be about the skis; or about the technique; or just social and not about anything; but not about the individuals (because others are smart enough to make up their own mind about that).

I want the forum to be a place where multiple viewpoints can be expressed and discussed without fear of moderation or banning, but I don't want us to get caught up in the flame wars of some other "unnamed" forums.

Sort of like high school debate, one team never wins points with the judges by calling the other team a "bunch of idiots".  They try to keep it civil while they express their viewpoint.

But I do want to say again, "WELCOME".  It will be good to have your thoughts and opinions and reviews part of the discussion.

[bushwacka]

Speculation would be one word, BS would be another.      I think most forums have people who express opinions from  points of view of lesser or greater skills.  (and I'll voluntarily put myself in the lesser skills category).  My guess would be that you didn't meet jbotti, but that's not really relevant.

My main point is that I would like for everyone to get treated respectfully.  I would like the discussions to be about the skis; or about the technique; or just social and not about anything; but not about the individuals (because others are smart enough to make up their own mind about that).

I want the forum to be a place where multiple viewpoints can be expressed and discussed without fear of moderation or banning, but I don't want us to get caught up in the flame wars of some other "unnamed" forums.

Sort of like high school debate, one team never wins points with the judges by calling the other team a "bunch of idiots".  They try to keep it civil while they express their viewpoint.

But I do want to say again, "WELCOME".  It will be good to have your thoughts and opinions and reviews part of the discussion.

I did meet him though.

He skis in a blue and orange helmet with Uvex goggle, and was at A basin last weekend. I even have pictures of him skiing......

thanks I dont mean to offend but only to inform.

[ToddW]

On the rocker ski thing, have you ever actually skied a rocked ski? You statement shows a real lack of understanding and leads me to believe you never have.

BW,   the author of that post has extensive experience with many rockered skis in all mountain conditions.  He was early on the reverse camber bandwagon.  He was initially more enthusiastic about them, but less so over time.

Different strokes for different folks.  That author has a very different body conformation and corresponding set of balance challenges than you do, not to mention a different technique bias.  Welcome and thanks for the nice ski review!