Author Topic: NEW FIS GS Regs (40M TR)  (Read 543 times)

jbotti

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 400 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 961
NEW FIS GS Regs (40M TR)
« on: August 29, 2011, 10:11:26 am »
A lot has been written and said about the move by the FIS to substantially increase the TR on GS skis for the 2012-2013 season.  The athletes have now seen the prototypes and have attempted to ski them. The response has been an unequivocal "You gotta be kidding me". And that is nice as it gets. Many have been hugely critical of the FIS. Below are comments by Ted Ligety and below that is a link to a You Tube video of Warner Nickerson on the new skis in a GS course. Talk about ugly!!

Ligety on the new skis:

8 | 18 | 2011   My thoughts on FIS?s attempt to ruin GS.
There?s a lot of talk out there right now about the new FIS ski regulations to be implemented in 2012- most specifically the GS radius minimum. I?ve spoken out against the new rules which include a new guideline stating that GS skis cannot be less than 40 meters in radius (whereas the current rule is 27m). I have even joked that Michael Von Gruenigen and Alberto Tomba were going to come out of retirement and use their old skis. Although, there is just one problem with that- their skis from the 90?s wouldn?t be legal.
For the past 17 years, GS ski radius hasn?t changed much. In 1996, World Cup racers were skiing on skis with a similar radius to today- with a 28 m radius. Three years earlier, in 1993, Rainer Salzgeber, the Head Race Manager who raced in the 90?s, said he raced World Cup on skis with 32-meter radius. To give you context of the times, ?Schlinder?s List? and ?Sleepless in Seattle? were in theaters and the first President Bush was handing over the keys to the White House to the newly-elected Bill Clinton. You would have to go back to the 80?s to find 40 meter radius skis. That?s the radius FIS wants everyone from me to 15-year old boys to be racing GS on. Wave good bye to the sport?s progression of arcing the cleanest possible turns.
I write this article now because today I finally had the chance to try a prototype of the 40m GS skis. And quite frankly, they suck. I felt like Phil Mahre circa ?84. Try as I might, I could not get the skis to come around without a huge slide and step. Warner Nickerson also tried them in the course. As I watched him fight his way down through the course, I could only think about how much the scene reminded me of the silent black and white films from the early days of skiing. At the bottom of the run, Warner said he was worried he was going to straddle every gate because the tips were so long. To have any chance of making the next gate, he had to go recklessly straight and then awkwardly slide. Might I say ?dangerous??
There has been a lot of talk that ski racing has gotten too dangerous. Leading that discussion is the sport?s international governing body; yes, of all people, FIS. The truth is, ski racing is a dangerous sport: always has been and always will be. And don?t get me wrong, I?m all for safety and taking the precautionary measures to avoid needless risks. But when I ask myself if GS is ?super? dangerous in the relative sense of things, the answer is NO. In the last two years, there has been a grand total of three injuries among the skiers of the GS elite (ranked in the Top 30); and I wouldn?t contribute any of the causes of these injuries to the equipment. For example, Thomas Fanara tore his ACL in Beaver Creek in ?09 because the gate panel hooked/wrapped him in the gate then sent him flying (also note, the snow conditions were that very grippy man-made snow); Marcel Hirscher broke his ankle due mainly to poor hill preparation (he was running #2 and there was a huge unmarked hole in the ice that he stuffed his foot into at full speed); The third injury of the past two years was Benni Raich?s ACL tear that happened racing in a dual in which men and women were running the same course (men and women ski a different line resulting in a sharp grove at the bottom of the turn which caught Benni?s ski twisting him up and not letting him release the energy out of the turn). If you ask me, three injuries in 2 years is an acceptable level of danger- especially considering equipment was not at fault.
Unfortunately, I don?t remember the era of 40-meter skis very well so I cannot provide good examples of GS skiers hurting themselves based solely on the radius of the ski. But I do remember greats from the era like Marc Girardelli, among others that had countless numbers of injuries skiing on the straight skis. FIS should be reminded that racers have injured themselves in every era of the sport and chances are, they will continue to do so. When you have a 195cm, rigid lever firmly attached to your foot, there is a good chance of hurting yourself if you fall, no matter the sidecut or radius.
FIS claims that slowing down the racers (via drastic equipment modification) will make the sport safer. But the reduction in speed when using longer radius skis is inconsequential. When you crash, what?s the difference if you are going 90kph or 80kph or in downhill, 140kph to 120kph? Plus coaches are now going to set straighter because of the new rule changes so speed/danger really won?t decrease anyways.
It should be noted that FIS doesn?t exactly have the best track record in making smart, safer equipment rules. For example, just a few years ago FIS lowered stand- height and widened the skis- putting more force on the knee and body which resulted in more injuries. Narrower skis would have been the right move in that instance and is the only part of this new round of rules they got right.
If you want to slow down the sport then don?t allow tight suits and make us wear normal ski clothes like skier-cross- I don?t like wearing my race suit anyways. Another idea is to make an off set rule for GS so that courses are set with rounder turns.
I obviously must seem very biased when it comes to GS rules since things have gone very well for me in recent years. And to be honest, if the rule changes truly were safer and wouldn?t ruin the sport, I?d be all for them even if it were to my disadvantage. But from where the new rules stand now, I don?t see any added benefit to the interests of skier safety. If anything, I fear these new rules will drain all the fun out of the sport and will deter future generations from picking up a pair of race skis when they head out to slopes. Ski racing is a unique sport in the way it balances of finesse and well-rounded athletics. From my and Warner?s experiences skiing on these new skis, the new rules will favor brute strength and size, think Aksel and harm smaller athletic skiers like Fanara and Hirscher. I hope these proposed rule changes are just a ploy by FIS so they can say they made an ?attempt? to make the sport safer. Otherwise, I better dust off those Sarajevo Olympics VHS tapes and start studying that legendary Phil Mahre and Ingemar Stenmark step.


Video of Wraner Nickerson on them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76yYnVgbx98&feature=player_embedded

Share on Bluesky Share on Facebook


Gary

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2590
  • Location: Rochester, NY
Re: NEW FIS GS Regs (40M TR)
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2011, 11:43:07 am »
Very interesting post and I watched the video too..

Hmmm...I wonder if barrel stays would be available to ski on...

Really dangerous on a course with gates as close as the ones in the videos.

Do you know what FIS is trying to accomplish?

Heck, if they change the course and make it 5 gates instead of 20....a 40mTR ski might be just fine...you'd just need a parachute to slow down.

There's got to be some politicis in there somewhere.

Just goes to show ya...stupidty is rampant!  G

jbotti

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 400 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 961
Re: NEW FIS GS Regs (40M TR)
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2011, 03:15:26 pm »
The FIS claims that it is about trying to prevent injuries. I think Ted makes a very good case for this not necessarily being the case and that in GS there may not be a need. I agree that there might be politics involved as well, but so far the ski manufacturers want nothing to do with it, the athletes want nothing to do with it, so it's unclear what interest they are trying to favor.

jbotti

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 400 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 961
Re: NEW FIS GS Regs (40M TR)
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2011, 08:36:20 pm »
Here is some GS skiing the way t is supposed to be!! Every turn is carved beautifully. These are much tighter TR radius skis than 40m and it is a joy to watch!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBKiExf-Ab8&feature=youtu.be

jim-ratliff

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2739
Re: NEW FIS GS Regs (40M TR)
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2011, 08:54:28 pm »

Do you know how his time was on this race? Seems that he was very smooth but not that close to the gates?
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

jbotti

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 400 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 961
Re: NEW FIS GS Regs (40M TR)
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2011, 08:59:56 am »
Jim, I am pretty sure it is a girl and she looks like a junior racer. I really have no idea how fast she was or where she finished in this race. Having said that, it is rare to see someone so silent with their upper body in GS. There is absolutley no up move anywhere in her skiing and she uses lots of flexing to initiate each release. It really is beautiful skiing and as you say very smooth.

LivingProof

  • Global Moderator
  • 400 Posts
  • *
  • Posts: 892
Re: NEW FIS GS Regs (40M TR)
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2011, 11:15:08 am »
Jimbo,
Somewhere Lynn must have a great big grin on her face! Reminiscent of G calling her out to join her first RS trip via "come on Dude, join us" or "man up and join us"....or something like that!

But, the video is some fine skiing, regardless of sex of the skier!

One does have to wonder about the FIS Competition committee making this level of change without consulting the group involved in the change. Watching GS, for me, is the most interest from a technical ability standpoint. They just have to make great, round turns and it's fascinating to observe the skill. In the day, the best GS skiers were considered the best of the best for technique. Speed events seem to rule these days.

Downhill or SG is more thrilling, but, I can't relate to ever attempting those disciplines. My reflexes are way, way to slow for SL, and, for me it's the least interesting with the knocking down of gates. More of a boxing match  than skiing.

jim-ratliff

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2739
Re: NEW FIS GS Regs (40M TR)
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2011, 12:49:35 pm »



 ;D
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Gary

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2590
  • Location: Rochester, NY
Re: NEW FIS GS Regs (40M TR)
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2011, 01:21:49 pm »
Inspiring sking on THOSE snow conditions!

WOW...that little lady was flyin'!

midwif

  • Global Moderator
  • 1000 Posts
  • *
  • Posts: 1389
  • Location: New York City
Re: NEW FIS GS Regs (40M TR)
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2011, 05:21:54 pm »
Really beautiful skiing on both those videos.

I probably would have guessed the first was a girl.....the bright pink helmet and pink race outfit were a bit more likely to be female????

I wonder if her smaller stature and lack of female geometry at this younger age help her smoothness?
So many women athletes, ie gymnastics, some swimmers, seem to peak before they reach full maturation.
Higher muscle to fat ratio?

I hope she continues to grow and ski beautifully.

L.
"Play it Sam"

jbotti

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 400 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 961
Re: NEW FIS GS Regs (40M TR)
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2011, 08:26:05 pm »
Turns out that Topolino (where this video is from) is the world championship race for 12 and 13 year olds. She is no more than 13, with a great future!!

bushwacka

  • Instructor
  • 400 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 471
Re: NEW FIS GS Regs (40M TR)
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2011, 09:33:13 pm »
I do not think carving clean arcs was a progression of the sport at all. It has nothing to do with real freeskiing in real conditions.

I wonder if these guys and gals are going to have alittle bit more refined rotary skills to deal with the big boards.