To BG or Not to BG

[Gary]

It's that time of year I start looking at my skis...checking out the edges and bases and last year when I put them away I said...they're just fine. This morning I scraped off the winter wax to get a look at the bases and they are pretty chewed up...filled but pretty scared.

I struggle with Base Grinding skis...usually I don't keep them long enough to worry about it but this MX78 has been my career favorite.

I've got 2 seasons on them and my common sense mind says, do the BG and get another 2 season on them before having to worry about it. I just worry that some of it's ski "mojo" will disappear as the base and edges are ground down.
 
I need mental assistance here....I reach out for wise guidance!

[jbotti]

Gary my view on when to base grind is to wait as long as possible. I know a lot of people who ski their skis until they need a base grind and then sell them because they have had such bad luck with grinds.  I agree with Max, if you can find a solid place that does a lot of them for racers, you should be fine. Grinding before the bases get high is a mistake IMO especially when you consider that there is aways some risk that they come back less good, or god forbid a lot worse!

[LivingProof]

G,

At the end of last season, Phil took my MX88's back to Tahoe for a full tune, including a BG from Start Haus. Mine had some light demo wear and were also used for 2 seasons. Presently, they remain with a full coat of summer wax. I'm not sure if I would have full faith in a local Philly shop as I just don't have the experience. I'm really excited about getting back on them with full new tune and fully intend to ski them for many years.

It would cost a few bucks to ship them out/back, but, if you are keeping them for 2 more seasons, then now is time to do it.

Hmmm......you doing 2 more full seasons on the same ski. Long odds, even if they are Kastle 78's.

[jim-ratliff]

Precision Ski in Frisco is a good shop.
Off I-70 at exit 203 and across from WalMart.


970-668-3095

[jbotti]

Start Haus does excellent work and I would feel very comfortable getting my bases ground there. I have Willi Wiltz do mine and he is also in Tahoe. Max has had work done at the Race Place in Bend and says they do good work. Many people ship their skis to get base grinds. Better to go where you know it gets done right than going locally where the work may be poor. There really is nothing worse than a bad base grind!!

[Gary]

Thanks Much guys...I too really struggle with this as I've had some wretched experiences with shops.

Our local shop has one of those "big green laser guided machines" that cost $100,000 I was told. We have a strong race team and they do the work for them.

It's just, this may sound weird...I think I could notice the glide or speed was not what it was when they were new. Granted there are some Freddie Krugar scars on both skis due to some partially submerged rocks in Chile last season....yes, patched but needing constant work.

Good point to match up the grind with the conditions we ski...anyone have any thoughts on the best grind patterns to use? Considering this is my handy dandy all purpose tool used for hard, wet, mixed snow conditions....I ask...what's the most versatile grind pattern?

Thanks gang for the great advice.....must hold on to the Mojo for my MX78's. AND Mike...yeah...it's been quite a while since I had that much love for a pair of skis and held them this long....woe is the grinder that comes between us.

Best, G

[Liam]

I work in a shop that has new (bought new 3 years ago) wintersteiger machines and a ceramic stone edge  grinder (and the greem hot wax machine).  The guy who runs the machine (Phil) is in his early 60's, a great skier and has been doing race tunes all around America since the late 1960's.  He's meticulous, fussy, and skilled.  When I get the 'full-tune' from Phil, my skis ski better than when they were new.  Most of the junior racers won't go to anyone else.  I'd trust him with any ski.....

Make sure that the shop you go to has a 'Phil' running those fancy machines and not some easily distracted teenager or college aged 'dude' (for give my ageism....but experience has taught me it's a fairly reliable assessment).  Talk to the technician and get a sense of how good and knowledgeable, and steady-handed he is. 

The new machinery is great....but it requires a skilled user. 

FWIW-The ceramic edge is more important than the grind and yields bigger improvements in how an older ski skis than any other tuning procedure...in my opinion.

Liam

[Gary]

Max, I never thought about that...I'll set my disappointmet alarm for 2 days! Gotta be like breaking in new skis though.

Hey Liam...you're dead on...I know all the guys in our local shop but don't know which run operates the "green machine"...great advice. I'll be checkin' in with the boys!

But...can you explain "ceramic edge"?

Finally...this morning I sent an email to Kastle Skis...I explained my BG delima and asked what base pattern they send their MX78's out with. Figured they were darn good when I got them.

The more I read on line about the variety of finishes, linear,etc ....then fine, course, and medium, fast, slow skiing, wet or dry conditions....the WAY more I got confused.

I'll let you know if I hear from Kastle. Thanks guys, G

[Liam]

Ceramic edge (wet grinder)-It's a higher end edge tuning machine that uses an astonishingly hard ceramic stone to sharpen, polish edges.  It turns a fairlt pitted rusty side edge into a polished new edge better than any hand tool and any edge-file machine ever can... The unit is very expensive and very few shops...even high end shop have them, but the ceramic edge is worth the extra 10 bucks it adds to a tune.

Your naked eye will instantly see the difference, and if you look at comparative edges with a spyglass, you'd never get a regular side edge tune again..  And, you'll feel it when you ski, too.  Same caveat, though, I poor technician can really F-up a pair of skis with a ceramic edge grinder, make sure their a good pilot driving tha machine.

[Gary]

Got it Liam... I understand the ceramic factor for the edges...I was confused because I thought you were referring to the bases.

On Board now....I'm guessing that their laser guided "green Machin" has the best bells and whistles...but being informed will help me out.  Thanks,g

[Liam]

FYI-The ceramic edge grinder is a separate machine from the big stone and belt base grinder....good luck!

[Gary]

Thanks Liam..again, I did not know that. I'm always finishing my own edges but I know once they run the boards through a BG, the edges will need to reset at 3 and 1...I will ask if they have the ceramic edge grinder.

Only the best!

TY...g

[Svend]

Hey G....my thoughts on this...

It seems like you are not too confident in the work of your local shop, expensive green machine or not, and are reluctant to entrust your beloved Kastles to them.  I presume this stems from not having had your skis tuned there before.  Heck, you probably haven't owned a pair long enough that they would even need a grind    The fact that you are so enamoured with your Kastles and are keeping them this long is really saying something -- good on ya!

So, if from the moment you hand over your babies to these guys, you will be bathed in nervous sweat and be awake at night fraught with worry until the first run after the base grind, then perhaps you should go to a shop that you know does good work (see below). 

OK, having said that -- you saw the grind that our shop in Toronto did on Terryl's (that is, formerly yours) rather chewed up Progressor 8s, and on Terryl's Supershape Speeds, and on my first RC4 Progressors.  Impeccable.  Like new.  All three pairs turned out great.  Perfectly flat (from base high on the SS, to edge-high on the P-9s).  Perfect base and side edge angles, exactly as requested at 1 and 3.  You and I were in my workshop and measured and squinted and poked at them upside down and backwards, and couldn't find a fault.  And they skied great too! So.....why not bring your skis up here and let them have a whack (oops -- wrong choice of word)....er, let them have a go at them? 

They have a $250,000 Wintersteiger machine which has the ceramic whizzing edge grinding things that Liam mentioned; the techs are serious and conscientious about what they do; and you KNOW the result is good.  They can put whatever pattern you want on there, and any side bevels.  Whaddya think?

BTW, the shop put an "angular cross structure" on our skis, as a multi-condition performance pattern.  Worked great.  Very fast -- huge difference over the original tune.  And it didn't seem to create any problems in any of the snow conditions that we encountered last winter. 

Think about it.  And hey, I get it.....I would be agonizing over something like this too if it were a pair of my cherished skis.

Cheers!

[Gary]

Thanks Svend...I"m on a a presrip of Valium until my skis return.

I did go the the shop after given much knowledge and advice here and meet with the store General Manager....HE is the only one who does base grinds. He's heavily involved with our local mountain race team and he would be the man who handles all their skis special needs.

After a conversation with him, I felt as comfortable as I could be and almost trust the fact they will be as good or better than new..... (I say that 10 times each night before I go to sleep  )

I will give them a complete check up when I get them home. They're ready for me this coming week. If I don't like what I see....I'm bringing them to Canada in Oct for the ski show...either way...I'll see ya then!

Thanks, G

[Svend]

Hey -- good one! Glad that the shop can do the job to your standard.  Sounds like the guy knows his stuff.  Do let us know how they turn out. 

And see if the doc can bump up your dose if you start getting the shakes after a couple of days