A One Ski Quiver

[Liam]

As soon as I can, Bush.  Truthfully, I get up there for a few April Spring Skiing days every season (which may be why I like the front four so much, most of my experience on them is in 'sun softened conditions'...I think Starr is the greatest 'on-the-map' trail in the east.).  I love taking my wife to Stowe as it is also the pretties, and quite honestly classiest joint in the East (and I hate Flatton...er, I mean Stratton).

I will  be happy to square away some time for a mid-winter, midweek day trip to Stowe to see it through the eyes of Bushwacka for sure.  Maybe I'll come up early season, schedule a lesson with you and get off on the right foot for the winter.  Do I need an AT set up or can I boot pack the hidden gems of Stowe?

But back to my post...Your tastes reflect the needs of a full-time, aggressive, expert skier who craves the way-off-piste.  I get that. 

However, Bush, you are a full time (level three) instructor-Correct?  You're not taking the majority of your classes down Birthday Bowl(or Goat woods, or those trees off of Chin Clip, etc) are you?  Now, at the end of one of those classes, one of the stronger students says-Hey, I'm looking to get a new ski what ski or sort of ski do you recommend?  And you know, it will be his (or her) only ski.  What would you tell them..and no cop outs like 'I'd tell them to work on their skills and not buy a ski"-let's assume they are willing to do both. 

That's what I'm after-what does a full-time, top instructor at a resort like Stowe recommend, or look for in a one ski quiver-not for themselves--but in the general public they instruct? 

For me, and I'm not an instructor or even a very good skier (actually, I don't suck...but I ain't great neither) I'd probably suggest something in the low to mid 80's in waist width that was not overly stiff or powerful but reasonably competent.  The Two I've skied that I'd recommend are the Dynastar Sultan 85 and for the more hard snow oriented the Rossi Avenger 82 Ti (which is now the Basalt I think).  Based on what I've read I'd also look into the Fischer Motive 84, The New Head Peak 84 (I must admit, HH's recommendation makes it appealing) or even the Nordica Burner.

Liam

[bushwacka]

As soon as I can, Bush.  Truthfully, I get up there for a few April Spring Skiing days every season (which may be why I like the front four so much, most of my experience on them is in 'sun softened conditions'...I think Starr is the greatest 'on-the-map' trail in the east.).  I love taking my wife to Stowe as it is also the pretties, and quite honestly classiest joint in the East (and I hate Flatton...er, I mean Stratton).

I will  be happy to square away some time for a mid-winter, midweek day trip to Stowe to see it through the eyes of Bushwacka for sure.  Maybe I'll come up early season, schedule a lesson with you and get off on the right foot for the winter.  Do I need an AT set up or can I boot pack the hidden gems of Stowe?

But back to my post...Your tastes reflect the needs of a full-time, aggressive, expert skier who craves the way-off-piste.  I get that. 

However, Bush, you are a full time (level three) instructor-Correct?  You're not taking the majority of your classes down Birthday Bowl(or Goat woods, or those trees off of Chin Clip, etc) are you?  Now, at the end of one of those classes, one of the stronger students says-Hey, I'm looking to get a new ski what ski or sort of ski do you recommend?  And you know, it will be his (or her) only ski.  What would you tell them..and no cop outs like 'I'd tell them to work on their skills and not buy a ski"-let's assume they are willing to do both. 

That's what I'm after-what does a full-time, top instructor at a resort like Stowe recommend, or look for in a one ski quiver-not for themselves--but in the general public they instruct? 

For me, and I'm not an instructor or even a very good skier (actually, I don't suck...but I ain't great neither) I'd probably suggest something in the low to mid 80's in waist width that was not overly stiff or powerful but reasonably competent.  The Two I've skied that I'd recommend are the Dynastar Sultan 85 and for the more hard snow oriented the Rossi Avenger 82 Ti (which is now the Basalt I think).  Based on what I've read I'd also look into the Fischer Motive 84, The New Head Peak 84 (I must admit, HH's recommendation makes it appealing) or even the Nordica Burner.

Liam

boot packing depends on the day. If there is alot of fresh snow boot packing becomes a frivilous exercise at best. I have loaner AT setups though that are middle of the range in lenght and width(like 180ish and 100 ish underfoot) with adjustable binding that fit people's normal Alipine boots.

I am semi full time Level 3 instructor. I teach alot of different levels but I mostly get called upon to  teach stuff more in my spectrum of things. Park, Bumps, trees, steeps. There are still times where I am teaching alot on hardpack. Usually my Bushwackers suffice but if someone is really into just laying trenches down I get my SL skis out. With that said I have converted alot of people over to my side. My taste and enthusiasm tend to rub off on people in person.  Alot of my longer time students are now full time woods skiers. I spend more than 50 percent of the time teaching in the woods. Including a day week with the Pro Stowe Buster Group which our aspire young freeriders. These kids are future Lars Chickering Ayers, Charlote Moats, and Doug Coombs in the making. To give you an idea of the skill level, these kids learn to play with mountain with technical sound skills. We can go hit cliffs and some of the kids can trick(360s off cliffs are common in this group) them, when skiing bumped run out they have learned like myself to not ski zipperline but instead to double and triple the bumps.

when recommending a ski when asked, I generally ask what people want people want to aspire to, and I am realistic with there skills where they are right now.  If they are someone who say has no intentions of going off the marked trails I generally go 80mmish and under and try to get them on a right stiffness. If someone has an interest in skiing everywhere but is not good at finding the stuff 90mmish is where I go. The Bushwacker from Blizzard can truly ski nearly anything you come into at stowe if your a good enough skier its also forgiving enough for strong aggressive middle of the road skiers to try. 

If there goal is to only ski in the woods, I do not go under 100mm with them but I also caution that anything much over 110 mm start to be a real pain in skied out woods. Skis like "the one", bonafide, Line P98, Rossi Scmitar are great every day woods skis anywhere in northern vermont.

BTW I am about making things easier on people. I would rather them having fun regardless of their imperfection than getting owned when they try to twist a ski in tight woods.

[LivingProof]

Mike:

I had (actually, still have) the Watea 84 and it does east very well. We had a day at SnowBasin a couple of years back where it had rained and then frozen.  Off-piste was like cement, and it really handled edging on that well. It is pretty soft, so probably doesn't handle hard-charging fast skiers well (but I'm not one of those).

But I agree that 78 (like iM78) might be better all-around for east, especially for faster skier.

Jim,
We all get a little crazy about getting the "right" ski, and, this thread is all about a theoretical compromise. From what I've read, the Watea 84 would do pretty well for an eastern ski for a high percentage of skiers seeking a one ski quiver. My thinking was getting a ski for an eastern everyman and something with a hard snow focus might be better.

Not sure why you bought the Watea 84. Upon my return to skiing, now 7 years ago,  a first purchase was a ski with very similar characteristics as your Watea. Machette Sin, similar to a Volant. I was going west and wanted a all-mountain ski, my first shaped ski. I was a noob, not the sophistacated ski guru I evolved into now. I skied it on hard frozen trails at Blue for 2 years, and, only got off it when I wanted a PMTS approved carver. If the Sin lacked holding power on ice, so did the technique of the guy driving it. I last used it with Gary at Holimount. In late spring, we skied first day in the rain, the Sin did great in soft snow. We had a really hard freeze overnight, and, both Gary and I had all we could handle on the first runs. Not sure any ski would have proved magical. As soon as it softened, the Sin came back to life. Long way of saying that a soft snow ski can work in the east, and, on some day's, it will just thrive.

PS - High Angles still has the same Sin, fully polished Stainless Steel top, looks really cool as I saw it at the Gathering. I once did a post here stating I'm still sorry I did not keep it.

Are you keeping the Watea?

[HighAngles]

Honestly, I don't get skis with widths in the 80s anymore.  They don't really provide an adult with any appreciable float that makes a difference (except maybe really light weight females), yet they are a major compromise for serious SL trench carving on the hard pack.  No matter if you ski in the East or the West, the 80s ski is like 3.2 beer or the color white (which is for people who don't have a favorite color  ).

I have owned my share of 80s skis through the years (Elan M777, Elan 888, Stockli VXL) and I have come to the conclusion that they don't make any more sense in a multi-ski quiver than they do in a one-ski quiver.  It's the lost waist width.

If you're going one-ski quiver out West then pick up something in the mid to high 90s.  In the East I think it really depends on what kind of skier you are, but I think most resort skiers are fooling themselves using anything over 80 as a daily ski - better to go multi-ski quiver or rent something fatter if there's actually some deep snow that you'll actually get to ski before it's totally tracked out.

[HighAngles]

BTW - It's a different story for most PMTS skiers - an 80s ski is their "fat ski" (with the Shaman being the exception for a few).

Obviously I'm not your prototypical PMTS skier - I love me a big fat rockered ski, but I also have a fleet of narrow SL carvers.

[HeluvaSkier]

No matter if you ski in the East or the West, the 80s ski is like 3.2 beer or the color white (which is for people who don't have a favorite color  ).

Too funny and so true.

[HighAngles]

Hard to understand why one would think 85mm doesn't provide enough float for most conditions.

Think low angle deep pow (aka Vail).  There are plenty of areas at some mountains where if it's deep and you don't have speed you will be trudging through the snow instead of sailing.  If you've got the steep pitches and never have to negotiate anything less to get back to the chair then you're probably fine on whatever you choose, but in the Front Range Rockies the 80s ski doesn't cut it at most mountains.

[Liam]

I'm with max on this one..as long as you don't need to pivot in deep crud in really tight trees, skis in the mid 80's will float you just fine..especially in CO.  Besides, yeah Vail isn't Jackson Hole, but honestly the back bowls and Blue Sky basin have plenty of pitch--certainly enough to float someone on an 84-88mm waisted ski.  I think the real key is that of this is truly a one ski quiver, be sure to go longer in your ski choice.

[jim-ratliff]

Are you keeping the Watea 84?

Yes.  Actually, resuscitating the Watea 84 to create a 2 ski quiver.  It has the RailFlex plate, my Ski Logik's have the Head Power Rail plate and bindings and the mounting screw pattern is the same for the two plates.  Going to replace the plate on the Watea (discarding bindings) and wind up traveling with two pair of skis but only one set of bindings.


Lynn doesn't know it yet, but we are doing something similar with the Power Rail bindings on her new (last year's model) Fischer Progressor 8+ and the RailFlex plate on the Fischer Muanga's.

[Gary]

IMO....skiing on skis 98 underfoot up to 115 underfoot (my experience so far to date) is that it's "JUST FUN"!.

Given a variety of conditions I can find at Vail, Banff, JH, Alta that can vary from morning sunrise to sunset, the wider skis just make skiing for me less energy draining. A few years back at Snowmass I skied knee high snow on my Head 77's underfoot and just had a ball...it was blower snow...that was plenty of ski for that inbounds snow..but it was THE perfect snow conditions day. I think I've really only had a couple of ski days in my skiing career where the snow was THAT GOOD!

Today, I find that the wider skis for the conditions I USE THEM IN, can be totally playful and more versatile.

AGAIN I pretty much only bring out the fat boys only when the snow is ABOVE the boot.
Best,
G

[LivingProof]

Are you keeping the Watea 84?

Yes.  Actually, resuscitating the Watea 84 to create a 2 ski quiver. 

Jim,

Are still going to use the Head Magnum's, or, have you joined the 3 ski quiver group?

[jim-ratliff]

Are you keeping the Watea 84?

Yes.  Actually, resuscitating the Watea 84 to create a 2 ski quiver. 

Jim,
Are you still going to use the Head Magnum's, or, have you joined the 3 ski quiver group?

Magnum's are still my East coast ski, but I don't want to schlep two complete pairs in the ski tube when flying, and don't want to redrill the Magnum's for Power Rail plate. 
So Ullr's Chariot and Watea sans bindings when flying.  UC and Magnum when local (or Magnum only).