Rants - helmets

[jim-ratliff]

This may be a hijack, but did anyone else notice how few of them were wearing helmets.  It reminds me of Bushwacka's comments about JP.  (and props to you BW for wearing a helmet while you're teaching kids)

The rock stars and role models of skiing, and look at the model they are providing.  Why do people not wear a helmet on film?  And I think I need to put Harald in that group as well??

We have a few patrollers, what are you opinions about helmets?  Does your mountain require the patrollers to wear helmets? Do you wear a helmet? Does you ski school require helmets for under 15?

I've taken two really hard falls in the past 3 years (1 biking, 1 skiing), and I'm darn glad that I had a helmet on in both cases.

[jbotti]

I think Harald gets a pass because he is never taking risks like the ones in movies. It's also old school kind of like Hockey players when they first came out with helmets. There were just a bunch of guys that were never going to wear one. But 28 year old ski pros doing crazy stuff on film should ALL be wearing helmets!!

[jim-ratliff]

Jbotti:
I'll give Harald 1/2 a break because his audience really isn't the "impressionable young."
But I believe it's not about whether or not you are taking risks, it's about whether or not you are a role model for other skiers, and if so what message do you want to send.  For example, does Harald expect Harrison to wear a helmet?

I took a really hard fall on a green slope because a female snowboarder behind me didn't have a leash on her board.  It got away from her, and slid under my skis just as I was making a turn.  Completely took my feet out from under me.  Lynn heard the sound of my head hitting the snow from 100 feet away.

As far as risks, the only risk I take is the fact that I get on the slopes with all the other skiers, and some of them are clearly not in control of their speed or their direction.
[Correction:  I also walk to the lifts among people carrying skis, another location where I'm often glad I have a helmet.]

[bushwacka]

This may be a hijack, but did anyone else notice how few of them were wearing helmets.  It reminds me of Bushwacka's comments about JP.  (and props to you BW for wearing a helmet while you're teaching kids)

The rock stars and role models of skiing, and look at the model they are providing.  Why do people not wear a helmet on film?  And I think I need to put Harald in that group as well??

We have a few patrollers, what are you opinions about helmets?  Does your mountain require the patrollers to wear helmets? Do you wear a helmet? Does you ski school require helmets for under 15?

I've taken two really hard falls in the past 3 years (1 biking, 1 skiing), and I'm darn glad that I had a helmet on in both cases.

i wear a helmet all the time, well unless I am doing more walking then skiing and its warm out then it comes off....

With that said the amazing thing is I have never skied with a pro skier who wasnt wearing a helmet. Never not once including one that I saw not wearing a helmet in that trailer. These guys(well big mountain guys) almost always wear a helmet skiing. No clue why they do not wear them while filming all the time.

[midwif]

If you want to debate helmets might I suggest starting a different thread. 

IMO, its none of my business if someone else wears a helmet.

Hmmm, no Helmet thread on Realskiers yet?
Just think of how many pages it could go on and on and on.

I am guessing most of the skiers who participate on this board wear helmets.
Nuff said.

[beastieboy]

@jim-ratliff,

You asked about patrollers.  Our area has indeed stipulated that 100% of patrollers will be helmeted this year.  I'm pretty sure that there are a few of our group that have never worn one.  Most are OK with this, a few are not.

I have mixed emotions - I'm kind of a live and let live sort of guy.  If someone wants to take crazy risks with their life, so be it (not that skiing without a helmet is the craziest thing ever).  That being said, I take my responsibility as a role model seriously - to my kids and to the skiing public.  I personally chose to limit risk without destroying fun whenever possible.  I always wear one and except for a few days in the spring find it to be comfortable.  Personally I think that all kids should wear one - or at least their parents should make an informed decision not to have them wear one.  There are certainly a few people who are alive today because they wore one, but hopefully the vast majority of us will never have a reason to thank our lucky stars that we had one on (outside of the lift line).

John

[LivingProof]

There is a pic of me being sledded off a Jackson Hole bump run complements of the ski patrol and none of us were wearing helmets. In my case, I was wearing one without the chinstrap buckled, duuhhhh, not on purpose, but, somehow I did not do it that morning. Philpug picked up my helmet about a half mile down the mountain. I always recall that incident as the first thing I do, after putting one on, is to buckle it.

It's always bothered me that the JH patrol was not required to wear 3 seasons ago, but, JH patrol now does wear helmets. I think mountain employees not wearing sends the wrong message. Kids should be made to wear by parents.

My experience is that helmets have saved my head from safety bars being lowered and skis being carried near the lodge. I've not seen on mountain accidents where they would have made a difference, so, after all these years, I can not conclude they add much to the overall safety of mature skiers. I'm sure those who patrol have seen incidents where a helmet would have helped.


Harald is just..... Harald. It's funny that he rants on so many diverse issues that need fixing on his blog or facebook, but, helmets are not in his cross-hairs. Again, when he or his instructors or students on the mountain, I believe all should wear in the class environment. What the free skiing public does on their own, is their own choice. I must say that on certain nice spring skiing days, I've opted to leave it in the lodge. Does not make much sense, but, I've seen pics of others who wear a helmet do the same thing.

[Liam]

I have worn a helmet for my entire ski life (11 years).  My kids wear helmets because kids wear helmets to walk down stairs these days.

I work at the same area Beastie Boy does (as a patroller)-I do not support forcing every patroller to wear a helmet.  I've never bought into the 'set a good example' model.  I don't care if people wear helmets to motor cycle, bike or ski.   We have some 40 year patrol Vet's in their their 60's and 70's who I have no problem allowing to go helmet free. 

As far as the guys in the extreme video go...We all have no problem encouraging them to do double twisting back flips into 50 degree couloirs for our entertainment (and lauding their efforts), but we take pause at the 'bad safety example' of their not wearing helmets?  Seems kind of silly to me.

I think Harald does more for promoting skier safety by broadly teaching skiing with better control than JP Auclair can do by wearing a helmet for his next dinner roll off a cliff.

[Gary]

Hey...your nogan is YOUR nogan....kids....I agree...no choice.

But I know Clendenin just started wearing a helmet these past 2 seasons....our skulls are tuff but I've slipped backwards on a icy eastern bump run years before my helmet and saw stars and that incident sparked my love for my helmet.

Even on my bike a slow stupid fall a fell like a tree in the woods backwards on to the pavement, by myself, secluded road....thanking goodness I had my helmet on. I've been hit from the side, from behind and standing line...just nice having a little extra protection.

Still, we ADULTS can make the choice, teacher or not....I just think the older I get, the more I want to be able to keep doing what I'm doing. Drooling and skiing are not pretty to look at!

I don't even feel like I'm wearing a helmet, it's warm, does not itch, has great air flow and protects the little brain I still have functioning.

The why's and why not's can debate it till the cows come home...if it's just a matter of not cowtowing to what the establishment is dictating....you know ..."I'm a free spirit" mentality....Good head trauma keeps the the experience opportuntiy there for new doc's. AND hey...who know's...maybe these "free spirits" will be giving themselves up for the better good through the design of better helmets.

There, I rest my rant!
G 

[beastieboy]

Hey Liam,

I agree with the spirit of what you are saying - there is no subsitute for personal responsibility. 

Relative to the ski area and the new rule that all patrollers wear helmets - I think there are a few factors and at least some of them have to do with lawyers, insurance companies, and OSHA.  For employees of the area (not sure if us volunteers count on this) there gets to be an OSHA issue relative to the question of what is proper PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) for the 'job'.  I'm guessing that the lawyers have gotten involved on this question, and the insurer for the area wants to limit exposure to workers comp cases as well as potential lawsuits (they didn't tell me I had to protect my head).  So, there is probably some CYA stuff going on.  Don't think that this is going to please everyone, but you can't fight city hall.  (Well, you can fight, but winning is another matter)

The other thing that has the potential to be awkward is when we are called to go and police the terrain park for kids that aren't wearing helmets.  It's certainly not my favorite job, but it would be a little more awkward if I didn't have one on. 

I'm OK with the rule, but understand that not everyone will be.  That's life.  At least they are not saying that the public all has to wear helmets.  Relative to the kids - Gary I'm with you.  I've changed our kid's diapers for one period of their lives already.  I don't think that any parent wants to go through that again with their adololescent or adult kids due to a preventable traumatic brain injury.  Any parent that signs off on their kids not wearing helmets should have to watch a video detailing the potential outcomes.  Everyone says - 'it won't happen to me', and it doesn't, until it does.  The potential is there for all of us. 

'Nuff rant from my end.

John

[Liam]

BB,

as one of the few actual paid people on patrol I can add a few other points.  We are not held to an OSHA standard...if we were, The ski area would not only stipulate PPE protocols, but, by law, would have to provide ALL OF OUR PPE equipment (and pay for our safety training as well-which is standard for all EMT outfits).   You probably noticed that hasn't happened. Fortunately for them, we are an NSP affiliated, self-funded and independent (and over 90% volunteer!).

That aside, making Patrollers wear helmets is no big deal, of course.  But as far as the General Public or raising eyebrows at the helmetless antics of JP Auclair, I think it is misplaced concern at best, and intrusive nannyism at worst.

As someone who often sides with my kids when they relate to me the latest tyranies imposed by control freak lunch moms on the playground, I've come to view "Safety" as the new fascism.

[jim-ratliff]

BB,

as one of the few actual paid people on patrol I can add a few other points.  We are not held to an OSHA standard...if we were, The ski area would not only stipulate PPE protocols, but, by law, would have to provide ALL OF OUR PPE equipment (and pay for our safety training as well-which is standard for all EMT outfits).   You probably noticed that hasn't happened. Fortunately for them, we are an NSP affiliated, self-funded and independent (and over 90% volunteer!).

That aside, making Patrollers wear helmets is no big deal, of course.  But as far as the General Public or raising eyebrows at the helmetless antics of JP Auclair, I think it is misplaced concern at best, and intrusive nannyism at worst.

As someone who often sides with my kids when they relate to me the latest tyranies imposed by control freak lunch moms on the playground, I've come to view "Safety" as the new fascism.

HERE, HERE!!     I felt exactly the same way when they started installing seat belts in automobiles, and even more so when they started requiring that you use them.  I laugh about it now, but I really felt that they were taking away my right to make my own decisions.  And I felt that the real conspiracy was Insurance Company's maximizing profits by mitigating risks with technology that the consumer had to pay for.
I do worry about where the balance is, though.  I got some nasty looks from the neighbors once when I let the kids up on the roof of the house with me (10 and 12). Seemed like no big deal to me, as a kid we used to climb up on the roof just so we could jump off.

I am pretty surprised that NSP hasn't passed down a mandate for wearing of helmets. 

[meput]

Oh, the simplemachines forum irony, as I am reading the thread, the ad is for ski helmets.

After my 35 yr vacation from skiing, the first thing I bought was a helmet. I guess as I got older, I learned that helmets are warmer than a hat (actually I learned this from snowmobiling. Full face helmet is the only way to keep your head and face warm on a snowmobile). Once I was skiing again, the highest risk are the other people on the mountain. I have been taken out by a snowboarder and a ski instructor, bonked on the head with skis, poles, lift safety bars. I have yet to regret wearing a helmet. I see no downside to wearing one. And my head is warm  .

But, just because I wear one, does not mean I want to force all skiers/boarders to wear one. Personal responsibility is smart, personal foolishness is just that. Granted, I think anyone on the mountain not wearing one is a fool  . I would even tell Harald that. But the decision is his choice, not mine to force on him.