A Request

[patprof]

I was delighted to see so many of the PMTS faithful also posting on this forum. I'm not trying to start anything, and I'm trying to choose my words carefully here. I think there are a number of people absolutely committed to PMTS who for one reason or another don't feel comfortable posting (or can no longer post) on the PMTS forum. Could this become another place where PMTS  gets discussed? I, for one, am not interested in EPIC bashing. But I would love reasoned responses to honest questions about PMTS.
Pat

[jim-ratliff]

Welcome Pat!!

Discuss PMTS and ask away!
But, if there are those who follow different paradigms,
they are welcome to voice their thoughts and opinions.

The only guideline we ask be observed is civil discourse
including those both on the forum and not.

No personal attacks on any individual.

Lynn

Posted by Lynn, not by Jim

[HeluvaSkier]

Pat,
As you know I'll help you as much as I can whenever you ask. Like I've told you before - it is all about becoming a better skier. I think your focus on PMTS is great as well as inspiring [I hope I'm doing what you're doing when I'm your age!]. For those who don't know, Pat is one of my former students, a very good skier, and a great guy. I hope to share some snow time with you this year. Bring the geezers to Holimont!!!!
 

[midwif]

The best source of PMTS info is on the PMTS forums. The good news is that its easy to use google to find answers to nearly any PMTS question there.

PMTS doesn't mix with any other paradigm. So, other non-PMTS related thoughts and opinions will only muddy the water for someone that is a PMTS student. For that reason I do not see this site as a solid alternative. Best bet is to send an email to HH asking if he will let you back on the forum. If he does, stay away from the content that bothers you and focus on the technical content that will help with your skiing goals.

Max
All you say is essentially true, but being where you feel comfortable is an essential part of participating and therefore learning.

Pat has been around enough to know who speaks PMTS accurately, on this forum and others.

Like you said, those who want feedback on PMTS will stay away from the content of PSIA oriented participants.

Of course, lurking is always a possibility on either site!

[jim-ratliff]

It is true that there are a number of us who have taken PMTS camps and have adopted that as the basis for our skiing.
There are also several of us who have taken John Clendenin camps and some who have incorporated that into their skiing.
There are also those who have taken PSIA classes or who are PSIA instructors and that is the basis for their skiing.
There are also several who are Ski Patrollers, and know how to handle toboggans and such.

But that doesn't make this forum a reasonable replacement for the source of primary information in any of those arenas.  It does mean that you can discuss or share thoughts or problems or concerns that might not be addressed on some other sites (or even accepted for discussion).

Example:  A member and his wife attended a PMTS camp. For whatever reason, the wife didn't take to the PMTS instructor or instruction.  After they skied with Gary the next year, she made some great progress and elected to attend a Clendenin camp, and made even more progress.  She  changed from an "I tried this and its not for me" non-skier to now being an enthusiastic skier -- and at a very important level that is all it's about.  Jbotti and Max and Bushwacka and Liam all share one very important characteristic -- they love to ski.

I don't want anyone to think that this forum is an alternative to the PMTS forum.
I do want everyone to think that this is a forum where skiers respect other skiers and are willing to discuss and help wherever they can, no matter what movement patterns they are trying to incorporate. And if the honest "best help" winds up being a link to another web page on another forum, that's OK.

Patprof:  Welcome.  I don't know if you remember, but you were at the first PMTS Camp I attended at Copper Mountain with Maria and Bob as the instructors several years ago.  My son had said to me, "Dad, at your age you may just may have to accept that you can't get any better." He was wrong.    

[patprof]

Hi Jim-yes, I remember you well. Good to hear from you again. Thanks everyone for their responses and welcome. Sounds and looks like the start of something good here.
Pat

[LivingProof]

Pat et al,

Feel free to ask, or comment, on any subject. We have no rules, other than respecting each other. Posting establishes "your voice" and permits others to know what each of us is about. Familiarity is a strength of this forum, and, sometimes, when I've been on the receiving end, I just shrug off particular phrasing that, otherwise, might rankle. You'll know what I mean someday when John Botti or Bushwacker sets you straight. 

With respect to a PMTS focus, the best place to learn PMTS is that forum. I've been told by many that the ONLY way to learn PMTS is in a Harald class. The forum provides general information, but, classes give specific feedback and corrective drills. Like Jim, I don't see our forum as becoming a substitute or alternative source of information. It's just too detailed, plus, only a few are willing to embrace the commitment. Like you, several here find aspects of the PMTS forum controversial and enjoy the more open atmosphere of the Real Skiers site.

Diversity of opinion is a good thing.

[Gary]

Gotta say there has been no mudding of the waters for me.

I know some here know how to take the best of what works for them so they can maximize their on snow experience.

I'm a BIG believer in filling my ski tool bag with solid ski skills...Having one on one with a Harold, a John, a Anybody you know who posses good ski skills, someone you would like to ski like, someone who has a great eye and a supurb way of demonstrating and explaining,..is a mind blowing, ski altering experience....makes me hungry to learn more.

So whatever your flavor...if you wanna be more one with your skis, the mountain that feeling that "you skied it and it didn't ski you"....make that connection with some of the best!

G

[Liam]

I like what you say, Gary--it works for me.

As to finding PMTS-you know Harald's Youtube series is well and by far the BEST available free instruction sequence available on on line (Compare to any of the others: Lasse Lyck, Warren Smith, or Chuck Martin's mogul series, Sofa ski school, PSIA Go with a Pro, etc)-it's the only one you really can use build the basics to great turns in multiple types of terrain.  Honestly, if you're looking for it, there is an awful lot of free, high quality PMTS (Harald in particular) information and instruction available at the the click of a mouse.  There is no denying the quality nor the accessibility of PMTS for those looking for it.  HH deserves kudos for that.