Good powder skiing footage to learn from?

[Johnny2R]

I'm a largely self-taught PMTS-oriented skier, and one of the things I like about PMTS is that it gives me a set of drills I can focus on, with external cues which let me know whether I'm doing them right or not (although I have to say that recently there has been much emphasis on getting video, suggesting to me that the external cues might not by themselves be sufficient). But I also learn a lot by just watching really good skiers, on video and in the flesh, and trying to imagine and 'feel' the movements they are making.

An area I'm trying to get much better is in powder, but I haven't found a great deal of footage on YouTube that I can actually learn much from. Point-of-view footage is of no real use, neither is the kind of extreme skiing of people like Eric Hjorleifson (amazing, but so far beyond anything I can comprehend). What I'm really looking for is footage of good skiers, preferably in slow motion, in the kind of conditions I'm likely to be skiing in - moderate pitches, snow of maybe a foot or so - where I can see enough of what they're doing to be able to internalize it. Anyone have some favourites, maybe on Vimeo or the like?

[Svend]

Johnny -- try the links in the original post of this thread:

http://www.realskiers.smfnew.com/index.php/topic,1992.0.html

There are 2 - 4 minute instructional videos, and if I recall, there is at least one on powder, one on soft crud and chop, and maybe more.  Hope they help....

[Johnny2R]

Thanks for that. I've actually already bookmarked those links from before, and yes, there's some useful stuff there. I should make it clear that what I'm looking for needn't be intentionally instructional, though. I am most likely to want to imitate what I see as a whole, rather than do the specific things that the person teaching thinks I need to do. This may seem perverse, but I've seen quite a lot of instructional video where it seems to me that the instructions being given could never lead to the finished skiing product I see. What I'm after here is simply good powder skiing where it's possible to see what's going on. I've seen some clips from a Japanese instructional video which I've found very helpful despite (or possibly because of) the fact that I can't understand what's being said!

[Svend]

Johnny, that same site has some video travelogues from different resorts around the world.  Being Canadian, they are somewhat weighted toward our own resorts, but that also means there are several there from the heli and cat skiing outfits here -- look for Mica, Weigele, Island Lake, Powder Cowboys, Monashee -- as well as one from Niseko, Japan.  The former episodes are hosted by a woman named Edith Rosza, a former Canadian Ski Team member, and all-round great skier.  There are lots of video segments of her and her colleagues skiing deep powder, making it look way too easy.  Some nice skiing to be seen there.

Try this link:  http://skitelevision.com/#!/channel/7870  and scroll through the episodes.  You have to sit through or fast forward through some other stuff, but these videos are from their TV series, so a variety of things on screen there.

Hope you find what you're looking for....

[smackboy1]

What I'm after here is simply good powder skiing where it's possible to see what's going on. I've seen some clips from a Japanese instructional video which I've found very helpful despite (or possibly because of) the fact that I can't understand what's being said!

How about this?

[Johnny2R]

Svend, thanks for the pointers, I'll look through that lot.

Smackboy, that's some pretty nice skiing, isn't it? And yes, it is something I can learn from, even though it is from an incomparably higher level above me. Interesting that in Japan there's apparently a market for video of just great skiing, it doesn't have to be extreme skiing on suicidal terrain.

[bushwacka]

there is no significant difference between but we do in powder and what we do else where. If you able to ski a groomer arc to arc or at least brushed arc to arc. Your able to ski powder on a fatter ski and probably even a skinny skis as its not to stiff.

[Johnny2R]

there is no significant difference between but we do in powder and what we do else where. If you able to ski a groomer arc to arc or at least brushed arc to arc. Your able to ski powder on a fatter ski and probably even a skinny skis as its not to stiff.

Sure, that's the approach I take. I lack experience in powder, though, so the different feel of it tends to take me by surprise. Do you really not make any adaptations when you're in powder? You do exactly what you would do on piste? How about if you really want to slow things down?

[bushwacka]

First of all the easiest way to ski powder is to never think about slowing down even you need to slow down you do though line first and then smearing second which is exactly my train of thought for skiing groomers as well I never want to slow down but if I do i do it though line first and then though skidding or brushing second.  BTW you can not smear in powder on skinny skis.

Honestly once I get going in powder snow I truly do it ski it pretty much the same way as a groomer. I even still balance mostly on the outside ski even though that get alittle less biased in powder.

Honestly the fact you asked what happens when we need to slow down mean you do not understand skiing. We never choose a line that makes us think about slowing down or at least hopefully we do not but the world is not perfect and some times you need to smear.



I ski very round line till its get tight then I throw them sideways or I just straighten them out and hope for the best with Jedi like reaction times and incredibly strong core and legs and I can almost always recover.  It easy to ski powder on wide open steep face trying doing it low angle woods that are anything but flat terrain and with tons of trees to cross block out of the way.

[Gary]

Johnny, slowing down in powder to stop or change direction....2 entirely different things in pow...you need momentum in pow otherwise the depth and density of the pow will take control. You can mangage your speed with rounded turns or like Bush stated smear turns. Having a wider ski for this is very helpful....twin tips or rockers  make this much easier. Woods skiing is not for the faint of heart...it takes years of practice, control, and fearlessness to ski in there like BW does. Glades, much easier to maneuver in...but if you're just learing pow..stick to open trails or bowls.

What works for me:
Work the skis from a very centered stance...when turning..weighted 50/50 to 60/40 depending on where you are in the turn.
Feel you are more upright than you would be on a hard snow groomer.
Trust the uphill edge to be active in turn shape and speed management.
keep downhill big toe edge and up hill baby toe edge working all the time.
Keep the pole plants working and your hands where you can see them at all times.
Work both feet together because just working your downhill big toe edge will separate your skis quickly
Keep knees together so the skis work as a platform
Soft movements to the edges unless your slamming them sideways.
Stopping in pow...hockey stops work, pointing the tips up hill works...basically the same stuff as on groomers but softer.
Be patient with your turns..any over exagerated movements throw off your rhythm.

Finally...enjoy the pow...it's a real treat to ski once you find your comfort zone.

Best, g

[Svend]

Hmmm...I think that has to be one of the clearest, most succinct and easy to understand mini-lessons on how to ski powder that I have read.  I will print that and keep it in the back pocket of my ski pants.  Well said!  Thanks G!

[Liam]

Interesting Advice, Bush.  Do you get the opportunity to teach a lot of 'powder specific lessons'?   Honestly, I'd love to hear about the learning curve and struggles successes you've had in that arena

I think you're right, the reason that the intermediate struggles in powder is because their main method of speed control (skidding, dragging and pivoting) gets taken away from them.


Fortunately, powder rewards good skiing and gives immediate feed back.  Turn shape (or line choice) is the best way to control speed (and for those of us not on big whopping rockers, the only way!)-all you have to do is hold your turn through the fall line and you'll drop speed (usually you'll drop too much speed and sacrifice that necessary momentum for smooth powder skiing). 


gary, that is a nice sequence on good powder skiing, I would add only one more element:

While most will maintain that proper flexing is essential in skiing any surface, In powder, flexing the legs to release the old turn, transfer balance and engage the next turn is even more critical (the benefits of doing it right and the consequences of doing it wrong are instantly apparent in deeper powder). Developing a nice, rhythmic flexing pattern in powder is both enjoyable and helpful in skiing it well.  It is not all that dissimilar from smooth mogul skiing (which, in my book, is a closer analogy to good powder skiing than good groomer skiing; though, powder skiing is a lot easier than good mogul skiing once you get the hang of it).

The best explanation, photo sequence and tutorial on how to build good powder turns (that pays very close attention to flexing) is in Deslaurier's 'Ski The Whole Mountain' book.  If you are in to PMTS you'll find Eric and Rob's approach very familiar.  I can say in all honesty that book was the best instructional help I ever had regarding skiing Powder (and crud and steeps....it's less helpful for moguls).  It'll give you the basic concepts and movements, after that, you'll just have to seek out the soft stuff and get some miles.

Get after it!

[Gary]

Thanks Svend (hope we get some in Banff)...and Liam...absolutley correctmundo! Adding flexing and extending also very much the same in skiing the mountain every where.

I would however like to add a very important fact that slipped my mind....especially in the pow..find the float between transitions....get the skis flat in pow between edge changes. This helps smooth out transitions and helps set up as Liam added "rhythmic flexing."

G

[bushwacka]

Interesting Advice, Bush.  Do you get the opportunity to teach a lot of 'powder specific lessons'?   Honestly, I'd love to hear about the learning curve and struggles successes you've had in that arena

I think you're right, the reason that the intermediate struggles in powder is because their main method of speed control (skidding, dragging and pivoting) gets taken away from them.


Fortunately, powder rewards good skiing and gives immediate feed back.  Turn shape (or line choice) is the best way to control speed (and for those of us not on big whopping rockers, the only way!)-all you have to do is hold your turn through the fall line and you'll drop speed (usually you'll drop too much speed and sacrifice that necessary momentum for smooth powder skiing). 


gary, that is a nice sequence on good powder skiing, I would add only one more element:

While most will maintain that proper flexing is essential in skiing any surface, In powder, flexing the legs to release the old turn, transfer balance and engage the next turn is even more critical (the benefits of doing it right and the consequences of doing it wrong are instantly apparent in deeper powder). Developing a nice, rhythmic flexing pattern in powder is both enjoyable and helpful in skiing it well.  It is not all that dissimilar from smooth mogul skiing (which, in my book, is a closer analogy to good powder skiing than good groomer skiing; though, powder skiing is a lot easier than good mogul skiing once you get the hang of it).

The best explanation, photo sequence and tutorial on how to build good powder turns (that pays very close attention to flexing) is in Deslaurier's 'Ski The Whole Mountain' book.  If you are in to PMTS you'll find Eric and Rob's approach very familiar.  I can say in all honesty that book was the best instructional help I ever had regarding skiing Powder (and crud and steeps....it's less helpful for moguls).  It'll give you the basic concepts and movements, after that, you'll just have to seek out the soft stuff and get some miles.

Get after it!

I teach alot of lot of upper end groups/private including subbing when I can for the stowe buster groups who are L8 and up but pretty freaking fearless to give you an idea of the groups level the best kids can though flips in the park and spin of natural cliff hits as well as Platnium in Nastar and do amazing things in bumps like double them.

The thing is people have to be able to ski well on packed snow before I begin to think about trying to search it out.  I usally try to walk people right into the demo center on days where everything is powder to get them on Bridge on S3 so they at least have a fighting chance.

[Johnny2R]

Some VERY useful words of wisdom there - thanks guys! I have to say that I'm not looking to do anything radically different in the powder (I am a PMTS follower after all), it's more the minor adaptations that I was hoping to observe and internalize, from watching good footage. I've had somewhat peculiar bad luck with powder in recent years - I never seem to be in the resort when it's there, but it dumps down the day I've gone, that sort of thing, with the result that I've had very little real experience with it. In terms of probability I'm long overdue some good powder days before long, and I just want to make sure I'm ready when it happens. One thing I do from time to time is to practice what I would be doing in the powder while I'm actually on the piste, to the extent that that is possible - i.e., playing with more even weighting between the feet, really working at flexing to release, etc.