Recovery Time

[max_501]

This is in response to LP's post in another thread about skiing 7 days in a row. Most of my ski buddies are in the 45+ age range and over the last few years we've found a rule of thumb that holds up fairly well.

We have found that advanced to expert skiers that are in good ski shape (physically fit and on the mountain weekly) can ski a max of 3 to 4 days in a row before noticable degradation in performance is appearant. At that point taking the next day as a recovery day (no skiing or other exercise) helps the body to recover and prepare for the next ski day. If I have been skiing very hard during those 3 to 4 days then taking 2 days off may be needed before I am back to full performance. Sometimes I need a recovery day after just 2 days if I've been pounding heavy crud or bumps.

I would guess that many injuries happen after the body is fatigued.

[bushwacka]

I am 28....

but I ski pretty hard for 100s of days in row most years.

[Liam]

I am 28....


And that's why your input isn't of much use in this thread

When I was 28, I worked full time and was a graduate student full time and was a fairly notable local marathon runner and xc bike race and I liked to drink a few nights a week (and no, I didn't have children yet!) and I never thought about recovery, pacing or anything like that because I just didn't need to then.  Hell, I thought stretching was for old geezers.  And truthfully, any moderately fit 28 year old should be able to pursue whatever activity they like, as hard as they like, as often as they like without much fuss or rest (unless they are professional athletes, then I guarantee you that rest and recovery is a religious part of their regimen, but for the rest us, 28 is your prime athletic/ energy years, whoop it up!).

But the distance from 28 to 45, physically, emotionally, spiritually, cognitively is far more vast than 17 years might otherwise suggest to a young man.

Now, well, pacing is very much part of my general approach to just about everything I'm engaged in (from fun, to family, to faith, to friends).  Everything I do, I do pretty hard and extensively and with great gusto and energy, but, I pay close attention to my psycho-biological cues and make ample time for rest, backing-off, and recovery.  And it pays off not just physically, but mentally and emotionally. Frankly, I do everything better if I consciously build in down time. 

Best skier I know, even when he was young, held pretty religiously to the 4 hard days on, one day recovery to follow no matter what.

[jbotti]

I agree with what Max and Liam have said. The US Ski team follows the same rules, 4 days on snow one day off. Having said that I don't always follow this rule. It's mainly about snow time greed and because I have to travel to ski. Over the presidents day holiday and the week that followed I skied 9 days in a row and a lot of those days were pretty hard days. I am sure that I pay for this on snow but I definitely pay for it when I get home and it takes several days for my legs to come back. I skied in Tahoe thursday 3 days after the previous 9 days stretch and we skied in tight steep trees all morning  in poor visibility and my legs were gone before lunch. But it was a pow day so I skied til 3. Probably a mistake but I was also skiing with HA and LP for the first time.

BW, your 28 year old body has little relevance with the approaching or over 50 gang (I am 52). Enjoy it!! Having said that the best skiers in the world are following this plan and they are in world class shape. You may want to play around with throwing in some off days when you can and see if it pays big dividends in that you can work harder and go harder.

It's obviously a lot easier to follow this rule if you don't get pounded with fresh snow!!

Lastly, this may may pertain to me more than most because I did so much endurance athletics training for so many years. I upped my strength training substantially this off season and cut back substantially my cycling and aerobic training. I am stronger than in any ski season that I have skied and my legs have held up better than in any season before as well.

Great rule!!

[bushwacka]

I htink most of these guidelines would apply to normal people but....

I have skied more runs than anyone else at stowe this year on the lifts and it doesnt even track what runs I hike on but with the new RFID readers they can keep track. I do get tired eventually but can go for alot long than most normal people including the fresh out of college racers.

I do admitt I consider some teaching days nearly rest days and due to huge mileage on the bike and tons of early season hop turning to the point of fatigue many times over its really hard for anyone to out last me.

[Skizoo]

I'll probably be lucky enough to ski about 130 or so days this year. I'm 54, and just recently finished a stretch of skiing 45 days in a row.

Now having said that, there were a lot of 'easy' days mixed in with those 45.  I can do maybe 2 or 3 hard days consecutively, then generally take it easy for a couple days.

For me I find I feel better by skiing more often, even if I'm just skiing groomers for a day or two than I do in taking days off.  I took 7 days off during presidents week, did nothing for 2 days then some stationary bike and light stretching, then 2 days off and more bike, but overall felt stiffer during the week off than during the 45 day stretch.

Granted my 'hard' days would not approach what Bushwacka is doing and I can't do bumps all day like I could 30 years ago, so a 'hard day' is a relative term.
At this stage I'm just looking to get as many quality days in as I can. If my body says stop, I do. This week I skied 5, took today off, maybe tomorrow too.

[Svend]

Let me just say that if I've paid thousands of dollars to get myself and my family out to the Rockies to ski for 7 days, then darn it! we're going to ski every one of those days.  Especially if the conditions are good and we're all having a great time. 

But....when I know my body has to make it to Day 7, I pace myself, and I just ski differently than I do at home.  More relaxed, more easy going cruising.  Sure, I get plenty of hard charging adrenaline fixes in a day.  And steeper stuff.  And whooping it up bumps and crud.  But I see it all as play time.  Time to have fun with my family and friends.  Even the hard charging has a relaxed quality to it.  And I know when to back off and take it easy, so I actually make it to Day 7.  Intense? Sometimes. Fun? Always!

On the mental side, not taking skiing too seriously at times like that really helps me stay loose and not get fatigued too quickly.  The time for learning, training, improvement is for the weekly visits to the local hill at home.  But when I'm out west on top of a big mountain, it's time to enjoy and take it all in.  Forget the drills, forget the self-analysis and constant self-scrutiny -- that's all done for now.  Soak up the scenery, the peace of the mountains, the happy faces of my daughters. 

The daily "recovery aids" are a big help too.  Advil and a dram of scotch at the end of every day     (Well....someone had to say it! We all do it.... )

[midwif]

Yep, the legs are tired and sore.
Sleeping at 9500' feels like an aerobic activity.

Max's post is probably right on.
But like JBotti/Svend it's hard notto try and get every possible moment
and value out of a trip west.

Today was a  rest day.
But 6 more left!

I may need a vacation when I return from vacation.

L.

[Svend]

Sleeping at 9500' feels like an aerobic activity.

I hear you.  I've been to mine sites in the Andes where the sleeping quarters were at 12,000 and 14,000 feet.  The heart races at what feels like about 110 beats per minute trying to supply oxygen, and that's while lying down and trying to sleep! Needless to say, sleep just does not happen.  9500' is high enough...I've been there too.  Take it easy! 

Hope you're having a good time, though.  Sounds like it's time for a soak in the hot tub.

[Svend]

A further comment on exertion and recovery time, is the choice of ski.  When choosing skis for my quiver, I tend to avoid skis that are overly demanding and tiring for repeated full days of skiing.  Careful selection through demoing (whenever possible) of skis that give a great high performance experience, but also don't require constant high energy physical input or mental attention, is pretty important to me.  I know that at some point every season, I will be on that ski for 5 or 6 days straight, and I don't want it to wear me out after only the first day.  As Lynn said, it's a vacation, and not an endurance trial.

[HighAngles]

I spent my day today as a "slug" - my wife's term for me laying on a couch all day after skiing 6 days in a row and traveling home yesterday.  I was really concerned about making it through all 6 days, but ibuprofen, ice, and KT tape got me through it.

Honestly, if the conditions hadn't been as good as they were in Tahoe I probably would have taken it easier or taken a whole day off somewhere along the way, but as others have noted, the draw to keep skiing when conditions are good is usually too much to stop skiing.

[Gary]

For me skiing 6 days...conditions dictacte how banged up I get...if it's crud and marble snow...like we've had in upstate NY....5 days of that and all parts are hurting. I must add that adrenelin each day, getting stoked up being on snow..the pain melts away until 6pm...we have a code...no pictures of any happy faces after 6....we all look like we got beat up. 

Having said that....if we've got soft playful snow to ski in or pow....I just don't get as banged up.

Still...stetching, eating 5 small meals through out the day, eat enough protein, hydrate aplenty, enough sleep including the 20 min afternoon nap and my favorite, tart cherry juice..ha!.....all seems to help me make it through a 6 day ski vacation.

G

[byronm]

You all are ironmen/women compared to me...I just got back from "2" days on and I am toast....I will say....that both days I tried to make a concerted effort to minimize the time in my "lazy" ski position even on run outs. Having fun, but focusing on decent posture as much as possible without making it seem like a job.
 
I am sure, as with other sports, often you exert more, and in most cases waste a certain amount of energy "learning" basics or even striving for another benchmark until you find a groove. Afternoon of day two, I was stopping more often on moderately steep runs to let the burn in quads subside.
 
Lesson learned, I came back to skiing this year sans any real physical prep. Combined with energy wasted as a result of less efficient technique, I am stiff...sore...tire d....after only two days....AND....the whole time I had and still have the biggest damn smile on my face...   How does that work?
 
 
 

[LivingProof]

You all are ironmen/women compared to me...I just got back from "2" days on and I am toast....I will say....that both days I tried to make a concerted effort to minimize the time in my "lazy" ski position even on run outs. Having fun, but focusing on decent posture as much as possible without making it seem like a job.

Byronm,
Truth be told, many who post here would agree that 2 hard days on snow can take all their body has to give. In my 7 days, many were closer to half days and my day with John Botti was a short half day (in part because of becoming chilled from falls in powder and getting snow inside my clothing). Last year skiing with one of Josh's Level 3 instructor Stowe buddies, my legs got destroyed in 3 runs.  It was back in the gym today, I'll ski tomorrow. I'm looking forward to seeing if all the conditioning work last week pays off at my home mountain.

My roadbiking experience with a heart monitor tells me that 3 days on, 1 day of rest is a great formula. Like Svend stated, when we go on vacation, skiing each day is automatic. Only dense fog has ever kept me in a lodge.

My knees also took a beating from the use of wider skis, narrow is the word for tomorrow.

[byronm]

Indeed when I think about it...my skiing was different than the other few trips this year as I was by myself this time. Virtually -0- wait at any lift line and no breaks except for a short lunch.
 
Usually, I ski with my daughters crew who all snowboard...they take time to get into their bindings at the top of each run,get their ipods set etc. and as a group we usually get breaks as we wait for those who need a restroom break or gather themselves after a fall etc. Makes for a more relaxed day.
 
This time, each A.M. I did some warm up easy runs...a moderately sloped blue and then challenged myself with a "short" black run that starts steep with bumps and transitions quickly into an easy blue before going back to a steady blue/green diet. A bit of adreniline, uglying my way down the more challenging upper portion, linking a few sets of 3 sometimes 4 turns at a time probably affected my "endurance" for the rest of each day.
 
Along with a better diet as Gary referred to, I think the key for me might be that foreign term you used...."gym" was it? I need to re-aquaint myself with the term, mapquest it and get there more often. In lieu of that, even a homespun regiment of stretching and exercise will no doubt pay big benefits in terms of endurance and recovery.
 
Speaking of which, does anyone have any thoughts on ski specific exercises that translate to performance on the slope?
 
 
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