Help me find my boots!

[Ron]

I think I am going to get the new boots since I just sold one of my shotguns. gary and I have been discussing the best boot and I have come up with this list.

OK, I need a medium to plus (not overly wide toe box) due to foot bed work, wedges under bed to correct nasty pronation
Medium to narrow forefoot
low to moderate instep
narrow ankle
NARROW to Ouch calf.

Use, 70% gromed east coast snow,? 30% will be trips out west, and piled up loose stuff here at home
NEUTRAL AS POSSIBLE, NON-ROTARY

Currently in Hot rods, top fuels but just too much volume. Flex is fine. (Nordica 115 FWIW)

Looking at:
Head RS96
Head 110 (not too sure)
Head 90- this is Gary's pick but I am concerned it's going to be too soft. (?)
Atomic Race Tec CW (Looks like best fit and performance)
Soli Falcon 10

Looking for a 310ish shell.
Educated thoughts, opinions and best places to buy. I will take to my fitter extrodinaire, Billy Kaplan.

[Barrettscv]

Hi Gary,

Advising on boots is almost impossible, but what-the-hey!

The Atomics match your foot shape, but one warning, Atomics tend to be poorly insulated. They offer heated insoles on some of thier boots to compensate, but this is not an option on this model and not an option for anyone using a custom footbed. The colors are annoying too !

Given your foot shape, are Langes an option?

Cheers,

Michael

[Gary]

Ok guys,

Ron weighs in at around 175lbs.

The thing that if I understand it, he needs a boot with a solid suck you into it heel pocket and with his narrow lower leg, the cuff on the boot has to be narrow.

Ron, based on my experience with the Head RS80, I think the RS90 would be and outstanding choice due to the performance and cuff fit.

Still, that Salomon Falcon 10 looks very appealing. Funky cool liner with a narrow upper cuff. Saw and held the new Falcon in the shop the other day...pretty impressive looking boot from Soli!

I'm sticking with the fact that Ron should avoid a plug boot or full race type boot because he likes to ski most of the mountain, he's in his boots for more than 1 hour so comfort and warmth might be important.

Finally and most imperative, the color must match his outfit. So.....the boots can be yellow, orange, grey, or black.

It's really all about the boot that is quick edge to edge and the foot that fits the boot like a glove...you know....like the one OJ tried on....

"wiggle it in their baby for maximum performance"!

Liner fit, lower shell fit, upper cuff fit, proper footbeds, good even flex pattern, (in a cold environment) ..

Now Ron, how many more shotguns do you have to sell to spend the bucks for the new boots?

Best,
Gary

[jbotti]

Ron, based on your foot size and shape and I have to disagree with Gary. I have similar (maybe slightly thinner feet) and the only boots that will ever give me a tight enough fit are plugs or semi plugs. The idea that you can't ski the whole mountain in plugs is not based in reality. First in the Head boots you can reduce flex substantially by taking out the two screws in the cuff and this softens them to a 110 ish flex. Second in moguls with a booster strap, you can unbuckle the skis some and you still have the lateral stiffness of a race boot, but as much forgiveness that you would get from any "all Mountain" boot. Hovever, this all mounatin approach will be with a boot that actually fits you instead of one that doesn't (and can't) because of the size of your foot!!

Lastly, I unbuckle after every run and I have been doing this for years and well before I got my plug boots. I find this gives me the best responsiveness when I am skiing and allows my feet to relax some on the lifts. You can dial in any boot so that you don't have to loosen the buckles each run, but you are definitely giving something up in performance and response when you do this. This is? personal preference call.

Obviously just my $.02 among friends. JB.

[jim-ratliff]

Ron:

Off topic a little bit, but did Billy Kaplan use/accept the term rotary/non-rotary boots or is that the Gary influence.  Just curious.

Jim

[Ron]

More Gary- PTMS influence! I think I am heading towards the Head RS96, 130 flex with ability to soften if needed, solid toe piece for attaching toe lift if more upright

[jim-ratliff]

Ok, I guess I have to say that I disagree with both Gary and jBotti.? This is one of those areas where value becomes more important (to me, at least) than price.

In my opinion, by this point, Billy should know more about you as a skier than you know about yourself.? He should have almost all of your knowledge about yourself (where you ski, how you ski, what you like in a boot and a ski, etc.).? He actually knows more about you than you know about yourself, because he has probably observed things about your anatomy or physiology (maybe those are the same thing) that he filed away but didn't necessarily point out.? He may, in fact, have observed things about your boots but didn't comment because people in the customer service business learn quickly not to bad-mouth what the customer is using.

My advice would be to talk to him and see what boot he would recommend for you.? Or, just as important, what boots would he recommend that you stay away from.? If it turns into a discussion, you can share your thoughts and Gary's thoughts and JBotti's thoughts, but I would start by picking his brain rather than putting him in a position to discuss boots in the framework of your considered options.? (By the way, I think JBotti's plug boot recommendation makes sense for the skier you probably are, even if you want a softer plug boot).? And, by the way, you have someone that knows what to do with a race-like boot (based on your description of his background).

Anyway, my summary is that when you find a "trusted expert" then rely upon and trust and seek out his expertise.? If you wind up paying MSRP for a boot he recommends, it may still be a great deal!!

But I still think Lange's have too much forward lean and I absolutely believe Harald's assessment of rotary boots as a negative, and I really like my Head RS12's more upright geometry.

 

[Ron]

Jim, you are correct in all counts. My Fitter liked the Atomics and the Heads. After checking into both, I went with the Heads after final consultation with him. Either pair would have worked but the Head is a bit more upright. Plus I got a killer deal from Scott, Dawgcatching once again. I just sold my old boots in a bout two hours so the net-net to me is $300 for 07 RS96 boots!  Now that's a killer deal. We "threw" the Langes outof the mix a while back. Yes, I am ready to rip and will be ready for the real stuff in a bout two weeks. Head hasn't even shipped the RS's yet. They are supposed to go out in the next few days. 

Next step is to go to Gorsuch in BEaver Creek and let the MAnager know what a crappy job thier "expert" did. My fitter ciouldn't even us ethe beds he made, fortunately, I had a pair from a few years back that my fitter liked and he modified them. GARY and Michael are going to be my "muscle" for this job:)

MANY THANKS TO ALL

[Barrettscv]

Next step is to go to Gorsuch in BEaver Creek and let the MAnager know what a crappy job thier "expert" did. My fitter ciouldn't even us ethe beds he made, fortunately, I had a pair from a few years back that my fitter liked and he modified them. GARY and Michael are going to be my "muscle" for this job:)

MANY THANKS TO ALL

Hi Ron,

Sounds like a good job for a Chicagoan. (I can use what little Italian I know, if that helps)

Cheers,

Michael

[Gary]

Michael, wear your gold chains and bracelets, I'll bring the club of salami!

Ron is now a happy camper. I think for his foot going with Head was a good choice. Still not quite 100% sure on the  RS 96 over the 90 but a few times on the mountain will tell. I'm sure his bootfitter will get him squared away.

Jim, regarding rotary and lateral boots...I'm with Harold on that cause I experienced it with my Lange Comp 120's. Boots with with the medial side cuff? pin (inside) lower than the lateral pin (outside) are what I believe are a rotary boot..when the front of the ski is pressured, the heels tend to kick to the outside instead of track straight.? Much of whether one likes that I believe is based upon what technique the skier uses. It really is a matter of what works for your skiing style.

Jbotti, I hear you on the buckle and unbuckling of the boots....ususally that's where I am for the first 1/2 hour on the mountain. Then I leave them alone or tighten them up as needed. I think a properly fitted and performing boot should not have to be tightened or loosened to accommodate changes in terrain.

I believe in the plug boot concept when you've got someone that can custom fit your foot to that boot. Although my Head RS80 is not considered a plug boot, the bootfitter and grinder were flinging material out of that boot like volcanic plastic, plus I've got 20 hours into hand sanding to get the pressure even around the foot and the cuff.

I also know first hand about being in boots that were too stiff. Did some cuff modifications on them and all was good until I realized the overall volume in the boot was too much, especially after they packed in. That's when I purchased my Heads. Finding a boot that anatomically fits your fit before you slide the liner is is key.

There is a happy medium between comfortable feet and maximum performance....we consider all the advice and know and it's a road we end up taking alone.

If? you demand the most from your gear, the trip is most certainly worth the effort!

Best,
Gary

[Ron]

Gary, I understand your concern with the 90 vs. 130 but each brand's flex is different (as you know) and you can make a boot softer but not harder.  My only concern is the volume of the cuff. I understand its a medium, and I am thin,  Ii am going to try to find a rd or rs 96 to see what its like, I can alsways order an Atomic Ti 100 if the Head cuff is too much volume.

[Gary]

I'm still pretty comfortable that Billy can get that boot hooked up for you, no problem.

For many people that buy off the shelf and don't have the know how or the understanding that high performance boots most likely need customizing, they get out there and their feet are cold and in pain, the boots are too stiff and down goes the ski experience.

You my friend have been guided by a fleet of supporters and your own knowledge and are well on your way to boot Nirvana!

Oh yeah, forget softening the boots, we could always fatten you up if the boots are too stiff!!!!

Let us know if you have a chance to hop into some new boots prior to your fitting with Billy!

Best,
Gary