New skis for Mrs. Viking...advice needed

[Gary]

Ok....seeing me on Espresso or anything high octane....well think Mexican jumping bean in a coffee can...That's me bouncing off the walls in there.

Very Cool Mrs. V....would really to get her feedback on the Watea.

I know Jim will chime in on the fat ski thingy but one should consider the turning radius of the ski. Even though mid fat or fat....there's some pretty awesome platforms out there capable of making sweet turns, carve and float.

They also provide a much more stable balance point underfoot...they also can be pushed around much easier but can be a bit more sluggish compared to a 11-13 meter turning ski. BUT...there's a reason to have a pair....I gotta pair, Ron has a pair....Ed has a pair...hell Svend...your wife needs a pair!?

I know...we need snow.....but hey...compile your list and get her a pair.....oh yeah...don't let her borrow your pair....you just might not get them back? !!!

Just started raining here too....we got a nice walk early this morning and then played nine holes....very relaxing day so far.

Now....it's 2pm.....where's my tea?

Enjoy the day,
Gary

[Svend]

Gee, now you're making me want to get a pair of wide boards for myself too.  I've got my mind fixed on narrower skis, but with all the punting going on here, you're making me want to go find a mountain with some snow and demo some Wateas RIGHT NOW!  Wonder how much a flight to Chile costs? Better yet, I'll call some of my mining clients to see if they need me down there....

An Italian that doesn't drink espresso? Never heard of such a thing.  If you're too bouncy after drinking a shot, perhaps you're getting the wrong beans? 100% Arabica beans have way less caffeine than cheap Robusta beans.  When I drink a shot made with Robusta beans, I'm the same as you -- buzzed all night and bouncing off the walls.  With the good stuff, I can sleep like a lamb. (now here's a reversal of roles...a Dane giving an Italian advice on espresso... )

Take care....I'm off the give our skis their summer spa treatment -- hot wax, massage, stones, the works.  Long overdue, but I haven't been here to take care of the babies -- too much business travel.

Svend

[jim-ratliff]

Oooohhh.? Not sure that I want to go here again.

If you consider just the physics of leverage, a wider ski has a greater distance from the edge of the boot to the edge of the ski, and since that is a form of a lever then it takes more effort to tip that edge.? If two comparative skis were wide and narrow, then the difference could be easily felt.? However, the sidecut plays a role as well, because a ski with greater sidecut requires less tipping to get a similar amount of turning.

Head iM75 from 2004.? 114-74-103
Head iM78 from 2008.? 124-78-110
Fischer Watea 78.        122-78-107

The following is from Peter's archives several years back (when 70mm was a midfat), but most of these skis had a sidecut that resulted in 15-16 meter turn radius.?


The secret of mid-fats
The physics of 70mm skis on the groomed, where 80% of skiers use them 80% of the time, is surprisingly simple. 70mm waists come up on edge more slowly, and return to flat more rapidly, than do the 62 to 65mm skis that are the preferred tools of hard-snow technocrats. What this means is that they skid more easily and adapt better to traditional technique in which tips are pressured and the downhill ski is steered into the new turn. That's it, that's all.

But, it's a big all...

The effect of this behavior is that 70mm skis are more forgiving and easier to ski (remember, we're talking about the groomed here) and make skiing more fun than it otherwise would be for a big segment of the skiing population. And that, in turn, is mid-fats continue to be the best selling shape.

You take it from there. If skiing is something you do, rather than something you have to do, and barring certainly anatomical anomalies, chief among them extreme bowleggedness, and you spend most, if not all of the time roaming corduroy groomed, the this is the shape for you. As always, we urge everyone to try before buying, but if "leisure" describes your approach to skiing, 70mm skis are the ones to start with.

If, on the other hand, technical improvement, especially acquisition and polishing of top-level carving skill is your passion, 70mm skis are among the worst choices possible. Your ride to Nirvana will likely turn out to be either in the slalom footprint GS modes. We'll delve into the highs and lows of those more "technical" shapes in upcoming columns.

[Ron]

Viking what machines are you pulling with? I have a Mazzer Mini with a Anita by Quick Mill. Gotta love a proper espresso.

OK, so she really wants a cruiser Ski?; I think I will go back to the Vapor or even through in the Legends. I am of a differing school than most here so I will remain silent..... just remember if you are looking for an easy going, soft snow ski, dont' be afraid to go wider. The difference in energy and timing of getting a 70mm ski on edge over a 66mm ski is miniscual assuming identical sidecuts.  The real difference is overall sidecut, not just the waist of the ski. My final advice, she needs to demo. Too much unknown and too much guessing. Although it's fun 

[Gary]

Svend....If you're working on improving carving skills, I still like as the primary ski a ski in the 64-68 mm waist.

Jim stated it very succinctly...nice job!

A ski in the 70-80's underfoot requires less technical attention when skiing broken piles of snow and deep powder. I do think if one does not pay attention to the turning radius of a mid-fat, that ski could FEEL cumbersome when skiing the groomers. Jim points out issues on bringing the ski up on edge. A proficient skier that knows how to create angles, using tipping of the skis through their ankles already understands these skills and would have no problem with the transition to a wider ski. But not everyone is a technically proficient skier...but then there's the fun factor and many people love these mid-fats cause they don't have to be as technically correct and the rider can have more fun on the mountain. A skier with the technical skills can certainly use a mid to fat ?2nd ski in a variety of terrain conditions cause they LOOK for those conditions to play in.

Having said this and so we don't lose focus on what your wife wants the ski for....

I think a wider under foot ski for wedging with the kids and just pushing around snow would be just the cats pajamas....and then when she wants that ski to crush piles and deep snow...she already has the skills for sure if she's piloting the Head SS Speeds.

Still sticking with my demo selections for her and hey....there may be more when the 08-09 skis show their pretty faces!

Best,
Gary

[jim-ratliff]

Viking what machines are you pulling with? I have a Mazzer Mini with a Anita by Quick Mill. Gotta love a proper espresso.

OK, so she really wants a cruiser Ski?; I think I will go back to the Vapor or even through in the Legends. I am of a differing school than most here so I will remain silent..... just remember if you are looking for an easy going, soft snow ski, dont' be afraid to go wider. The difference in energy and timing of getting a 70mm ski on edge over a 66mm ski is miniscual assuming identical sidecuts.? The real difference is overall sidecut, not just the waist of the ski. My final advice, she needs to demo. Too much unknown and too much guessing. Although it's fun?

Ron, I think you shouldn't hesitate to voice your thoughts.? They are valid opinions and anything that helps people be more informed of the various points of view can't help but be good.

[Svend]

Thanks Jim -- that's an interesting read.  What I get from it is that my wife will notice a huge difference in forgiveness in going from the 66mm SS Speed, to say, a Watea 78.   This is very good news, as it seems like we can have the best of both worlds -- an easy ski to scoot around all day with the kids, and a wider ski for soft snow out west.  As I said, she will never give up the SS Speeds, as they are awesome cruisers.  But to get onto something that has the versatility of an easy-going ski and has some extra width for float, would be primo!

Gary, I like the suggestion of the Watea 78.  From everything we've read about the different skis in this width range (74 to 78mm) the Watea seems to be the one that everyone says has the most forgiving flex, most agile and light, and is easiest to turn.  And yet it seems to be able to hold it together at speed on groomers and in crud.  This might just be the ideal ski for what she's looking for.  The others that we looked at (Nordica Victory, Volkl Tierra, Head iM78, Head Wild Thang, etc.) were noted as being either too stiff and "performance oriented", or she just hated the graphics.  (Sorry guys, but this matters to women).  The Watea seems to have everything going for it.  We'll do a bit more research, but this one is looking good.  We hadn't considered the Legends, though.  Is this a forgiving ski in the style of the Watea, or is it more hard-core (pardon the pun).

And yes, she is a good skier.  Realistically, she wouldn't have trouble skiing most of the expert level skis out there, no matter how narrow or wide (except the really burly stiff ones), but that's not what she needs now.  Sure, she could ski an AC40, or whatever, but will that be fun for an outing with the kids? ....probably not. 

Ron, she's certainly not afraid to go wider -- this is preferred in fact.  As I mentioned above, she's looking for the best of both worlds -- easy ski for fun days with the kids on groomers, plus something she can take westward to the Rockies or Utah.  Keep in mind that this is the start of a quiver, albeit a small one.  She will probably still use her SS Speeds for more than half her ski days each season, and I couldn't pry them from her clutches with a crowbar. 

Ron, I think you shouldn't hesitate to voice your thoughts.  They are valid opinions and anything that helps people be more informed of the various points of view can't help but be good.

Yeah....let's hear it Ron.  I'm open to any suggestions and opinions.  As I noted earlier, neither of us has experience on wider skis, so this is new territory for us.  Out with it!

And lookee here....another espresso gearhead comes out of the closet! Funny that you have the Anita and Mazzer -- there's a guy on Epic who posted about getting exactly the same setup last week.  Coincidence...? Two ski forum lurkers who both have the exact same machines? You're not AKA Finndog, are you?

I have the ECM Giotto, which I love....
  (Does anyone know how to insert a JPEG here? I tried pasting one in using the Insert Image button, but that didn't work)

The weak point at the moment is the grinder.  I picked up a Proline for a great price, but it has a limited range, can't go quite fine enough (close, but not quite), and the indents are too far apart.  When it works with a certain blend, it's great, but with some blends it's an exercise in frustration.  I'll be getting a new one soon...Mazzer Mini, Macap, or Anfim...not sure yet which one.  The Proline will then be my decaf grinder.  How do you like the Mazzer?

Svend

[midwif]

Viking
I don't think Ron will mind me confirming your accurate guess about his 'alter ego' Finndog!

About coffee: anyone else go from espresso/steamer to the french press? After using a very nice machine for years, we switched (I say we, but my husband always made the coffee until I realized I better learn how) to the french press and separate bonjour milk frother. Simple, easy to clean.

But that may sound heretical to some.

[Ron]

Viking what machines are you pulling with? I have a Mazzer Mini with a Anita by Quick Mill. Gotta love a proper espresso.

OK, so she really wants a cruiser Ski?; I think I will go back to the Vapor or even through in the Legends. I am of a differing school than most here so I will remain silent..... just remember if you are looking for an easy going, soft snow ski, dont' be afraid to go wider. The difference in energy and timing of getting a 70mm ski on edge over a 66mm ski is miniscual assuming identical sidecuts.? The real difference is overall sidecut, not just the waist of the ski. My final advice, she needs to demo. Too much unknown and too much guessing. Although it's fun?

Ron, I think you shouldn't hesitate to voice your thoughts.? They are valid opinions and anything that helps people be more informed of the various points of view can't help but be good.

If we are talking about is wife, then I wouldn't want her to go less than 74mm or so. The Watea 78 is a great ski and a good choice, but so are many of th eothers listed here. I still think the Head 78 is way too much ski but the Legend, the vapor and Lynn's ski may all be very good options. This is why I really think she should demo. She likes to ski fast and hard, but wants something to criuse around on. That's a tricky combo of "wants" Sometimes you get a nice soft ski and then you just end up bored on it.; too mushy, no energy, overly damp, etc, OR you get a farily stiff and demanding ski with little flex in the tip and you end up working the ski all day and ayou can't relax on it.  I think a ski in that range, or up up to 82 or so would be good. If it's soft snow, you will hardly notice the difference being wider but will gain much more stability and ease of skiing. When I started to ski wider boards, I was amazed at how much less work and much less fatiguing they were. Unless I'm carving on groomed, give me my Watea 94's and I am very happy. (as long as gary doesn't take them out of my closet first) Remember This is for soft snow now, not groomed hardpack.  That's a whole other ballgame. just my .02.

[Svend]

Lynn, I'm glad you dropped in, as I'd like to ask you about your Every Thangs.  I've heard from your pals here that you find them light and agile, yet stable and solid at speed.  Looking at their radius specs, they seem to be more for short turns -- how do they perform in medium to long turns? And how are they in soft snow?  Have you had them out in, say, 10 inches of powder?

On the subject of coffee, the French Press makes an excellent brew, and is my preferred method if I'm not drinking espresso.  It is so much more full-bodied than drip coffee through a paper filter.  I've not tried mixing it with frothed milk, but I can imagine it would be good if the brew was strong enough and the milk didn't dilute too much, esp. with a dark roast. 

Hey Ron, that cracks me up that you're Finndog.  In case you hadn't twigged on, I replied to your espresso thread on Epic under the SGN moniker.  Too funny! And a nice coincidence.  How do you like the new Anita? Nice machine!

Regarding Fischer, does anyone know anything about quality problems with their skis? I've heard that some of their models have issues with delamination of the base, and dimples in the base.  Have any of you Fischer owners noticed any defects?

Svend

[midwif]

Hola Svend
Yes, I brew espresso in my french press and then add the frothed milk. I will say that unlike many coffee lovers, I like a bit of coffee with my milk. But!!!! The coffee must be full bodied and strong
Onto the Every Thangs; I have not skied them in 10 inches. Mostly East Coast ice/hard pack. They did handily in  3-5 inches of soft/crud/ mashed up icey stuff without problems. i am an intermediate skier who likes bumps and some off piste as well. Tree areas with soft snow seem to call to me. And I have answered, sometimes by having to sideslip or on my a--. Also am not a power skier. I am average height at 5#4 /115lbs. I am not in the ability category of your wife.  I had no problems with them in longer turns, though I prefer shorter turn radius. High speed makes me a little nervous. Once I hit "a certain age", the reality of mortality began to weigh.
From what you describe, I think the Fischer Vision Vapor may be a slightly better choice over the Every THangs. Handled up to 8 inch powder nicely, flexed well and handled hard pack with out problems. The ET is easier to edge (smaller waist) for East coast conditions.  I demoed the Dynastar Exclusive Legend, which had many advocates as well. Not my cup of tea on East Coast  hard pack, but not awful. Stiffer than I would have liked. Perhaps a contender for Ms. Viking though

[midwif]

PS. Discovered this weekend that screws had pulled out of skiis under mounting board. Bought the skis as demos in colorado, but the mounting board is done in the factory, it seems. Will be bringing them to a shop near Elk Mtn, that carries many Heads, for evaluation. The owner says repair maybe possible with plugs, but if not, Head is excellent about honoring the warranty. I felt good about this as I did not buy the skis there, but did pay to demo a pair of them one day. Th owner is quite willing to contact the company if replacement seems necessary. When he talked about repair, all I could remember was seeing Michael catapult out of his Fischer Progressive skis as both bindings released simultaneously. Lucky guy to not have any injury. Made sure the shop owner knew I care more about my neck/head/long bones than most anything else.

[Svend]

Awesome! Thanks Lynn, that was very helpful.  I'll show your comments to my wife and she can mull this over for a couple of days, and narrow the field.  Seems that for the moment she is leaning toward either the Watea 78 or the Every Thang right now.  I know...two very different skis, each with their own pros and cons.  We'll see which features win the day.  There are some great deals on both right now, so either way, she'll be happy with the price. 

Thanks to everyone for your input.  I've learned a lot about the character and behaviour of wider skis...so much so that I'm tempted to start a quiver myself and get a wider pair.  I'll post back here and let you know what we decide.

All the best,

Svend

[Ron]

I have not had any issues with my Fishers and neither has Gary, We both put a lot of vertical on our boards this season, especially Gary on his 84's, I tend to change my skis a little bit more The bases on the 94 are a different material than the 84 and I can attest to the durability of them. I am very impressed with the beating they took with very little damage. The topsheets have proved to also be very durable; even without wax

Yes, I am Finndog. Epic is a great site for the most part and we have hooked up with a lot of skiers from over there, Greg, Mike Phil and a bunch of other guys. I really enjoy meeting the cast of characters. I talk to Dawgcatching (Scott) from Village Bike a lot now about coffee, He destroyed his leg in March or February and is still in intensive therapy. If you didn't know, Scott sells skis to Epic and Realskier memebers at near wholesale prices and with excellent customer service. He is also an accomplished barista extremely knowledgeable about coffees and espresso. I think his wife is a full-time pro barista.

[Svend]

Good to hear that your Fischers are holding up well.  It was actually someone at Scott's shop whom I talked to yesterday, who told me about the warranty issues with some of the Fischers.  He didn't mention the larger Wateas, but the RX series, the AMC series, the Watea 78, and some of the Visions are some that he noted were having the delamination problems.  The Progressors, he said, were not having this issue.  This is a bit unsettling, as I live in Canada, and if I order skis from Oregon, getting them back there is a hassle.  He noted that Head and Elan are the most problem-free and well made. 

Scott wasn't in the shop, and was obviously at home nursing his leg.  Yikes....hearing about experienced skiers getting badly hurt reminds me of what fragile bodies we have, and what speed can do to mess with it if we screw up on the slopes.

It was pretty clear from reading Scott's reply to your espresso post, that he had a passion for it and knew an awful lot about it.  I wondered why he has such a high-end machine as the Marzocco in his shop? Does he have a little coffee bar there too, amongst all the skis and bikes? Will have to drop in there some time and check it out -- we have a standing invitation to visit some friends living in Oregon, and may take 'em up on it next winter.   

Thanks again for your feedback.

Time for my morning shot from Mr. Giotto! Yum!