Author Topic: Binding position on Supershape Speeds, for a female skier  (Read 612 times)

Svend

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Binding position on Supershape Speeds, for a female skier
« on: January 12, 2009, 08:42:48 am »
I had some assistance from the ever-helpful Jim R. over the past few months, about binding placement for my wife's Supershape Speeds (you can read some details here:? http://skiforums.org/rev2/index.php?topic=1305.0

Some background on this:? as I'm sure you know, the ski companies are mounting bindings on women's skis farther forward than for unisex skis.? This has to do with women's anatomy and weight distribution, lower center of gravity, etc..? At the beginning of last season my wife got some new Supershape Speeds, which of course is not a women's-specific ski.? The shop wasn't too clued in on optimum binding placement for women, so they mounted the Freeflex bindings in the factory position, center of boot sole to center mark on the ski.? Thinking that this could be improved upon, I got some advice from Jim, Lou on Epic, and I also recently contacted Head Canada's racing support expert.? All advised moving the binding forward, and in fact, Head is mounting the binding on their women's Power One ski (which is exactly the same ski as the Supershape Speed, but with a different graphic) forward by 1 cm.? So we figured if Head is doing this to that ski, so should we.

Now, I must say that my wife loved the skis before the binding position changed -- she found them fast, stable, smooth, and reasonably easy to turn.? However, changing turn shape in mid-turn was not easy, turn initiation was OK, finishing turns took a bit of effort, and they were not very agile.? They were fantastic for long, open, well-groomed runs, but were a lot of work for narrow runs, bumps, crowded runs, or when skiing with our kids, when some agility is often needed.? Not the most versatile, in other words.? Initially we put this down to them being a GS-type high performance ski -- the nature of the beast, so to speak -- but then thought we could improve things with the binding change.?

So, a couple of weeks ago I moved the bindings on my wife's skis forward by 2 cm, close to the BOF-CRS position, and they now feel like almost a completely different ski.? But improved in every way.? She's had four days on them now (in bumps, badly clumped up snow, and smoothly groomed fresh snow) and is absolutely delighted with the change.? If she loved 'em before, she's over the moon now.? Here are her comments:

Agility -- far more agile and responsive; much easier to make short, quick turns, but no loss of performance for medium or long fast GS turns
Changing turn shape in mid-turn -- much improved; this was not easy before, but is a breeze now; this has helped tremendously in bumps and badly clumped up snow, where you have to be pretty adaptable and change your line often
Turn initiation -- this is probably the biggest and most noticeable improvement; she finds it far easier to start a turn and get the tips to engage -- just thinks about it and it happens
Turn completion -- far easier and less effort to come out of a turn and transition to the next one, esp. at high speeds; makes the skis more responsive
Control and balance -- much improved; and unfortunately this also equals higher speeds (as if she wasn't fast enough before ::))

Bottom line -- this was well worth doing, and highly recommended for any women who are skiing on unisex skis and have the bindings mounted in the standard position.? To my eye, the improvement in my wife's skiing is very noticeable.

Hope this is helpful to someone...

BR,

Svend
« Last Edit: January 12, 2009, 11:26:51 am by Svend »

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Gary

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Re: Binding position on my wife's Supershape Speeds
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2009, 09:02:40 am »
Svend...since I ski like a girl...I noticed many years ago it was easier to turn my skis with my bindings mounted forward...

Since the adventt of adjustible bindings we could slide forward or backward, finding that perfect balance point has made a world of difference for so many people.

With my SS Speeds...I had the bindings removed and re mounted to the most forward holes forward, the maximum mounting position.

Yup...there it is....my center mass is right where it's supposd to be. I can ski hardpack aggressive or ski centered, neutural in broken snow, bumps, and powder. What a difference getting it right makes!

Find the sweet spot and your skis will give you maximum performance.

Glad you got your Viking bride zeroed in~!

G

Svend

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Re: Binding position on my wife's Supershape Speeds
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2009, 09:12:16 am »
Yeah, it's good all around.  It's made the skis so much more versatile and easy to ski.  Before moving the bindings, we were actually considering getting my wife a second pair of skis -- the SS Speeds for days when she wants to let 'er rip; and a second pair, lighter, more agile and easy-going, for days with the kids.  I even started a thread here looking for advice on that.  Glad we did the binding change, as now there's no need to go shopping.   ;D

Svend

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Gary, you may remember that I also have my bindings mounted forward, and although I haven't tried them at other positions, this seems to be a very good spot for them (as you can tell from my notes how I like my skis).  So this is obviously not just a benefit to female skiers.? And, for the record, I don't ski like a girl!!!
« Last Edit: January 12, 2009, 12:43:09 pm by Svend »

Perry

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FWIW - I now start with the BOF in the middle.  I have found that when I experiment, that is where I generally end up.  This is what I did with the Magnums recently and so far so good.

Gary

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Hey Svend....I've skied with some pretty fast girls...let me tell ya! SOunds like you saved bucks in the process...ain't knowledge grand!

And yes we know you love your skis...I hope you've waxed them everywhere so they look sparkling new.

I did have a similar experience at Whistler last year when I was contemplating renting a different ski for some ankle to boot high piles of snow. After getting my binding moved forward, the 3 of us got re-acquainted and it was love at first turn.

Todays skis are extremely versatile....settin g them up right from the get go makes or breaks the love/hate relationship.

Hey Perry, I jumped on Rons 170 Mags and found their set center mounting worked perfect. We had loose snow and light powder to ski in that day, certainly not eastern conditions. I'd have to ski more of them in the east to see if that would be their final resting place. Great skis though!

best,
G

jim-ratliff

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Svend:  Thank your wife for her excellent ski analysis.  Very well written, who would have thought that a Viking could be so adept and succinct with the English language.  (insert icon for applause).

Gary:  I don't think we want to know about the fast and easy women you have skied with.  You band members and your groupies, shame on you.  I hope your children don't know about this aspect of your sordid past.   ;D ;D ;D

"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Perry

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Gary,

I actually have mine a little forward of the "center" mark.  I just set the toe piece a little forward and adjusted the back.  I do the Ball of foot to center of running surface.  The first couple of times it was a real PITA. 

I wasn't sure what I was doing and wasn't sure what corresponded on my boot to the place where my ball of my foot was supposed to be (on a sneeker you can just push in and feel - not so with a ski boot).  Also, if you are a little perfectionist like me, where to the millimeter is the CRS?  ??? :o.  Where do you measure on the shovel and tail?  Gotta make sure you get it right....right?

WRONG - too much hassle.  Now I pretty much guestamate that if you measure along the side and take the midway point between where the widest place on the shovel and tail is; then you are close enough.  I have a place on my boots that is also my best guess.  Now I can get that done pretty quickly.  With the railflex bindings, I just adjust up and back if needed on the sole length toe and heel pieces and that is my starting point.  Then I go up and back depending on conditions.  For me BOF-CRS is pretty sweet for a typical groomed run.  Depending on the ski, it can be 1.0 - 2.5 cm forward of the mark on the ski.

Svend

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Perry, while not a binding expert, it seems to me that it would be pretty difficult to get a Freeflex binding bang on the BOF-CRS mark to the nearest millimeter.? The method of finding the CRS point is simple enough, but as you say, where the heck is the BOF mark? There's certainly going to be an error factor in getting it spot on -- probably about +/- 0.5 cm I would guess.? Centering your foot in the boot shell...tapping the side to find the ball of foot placement....a bit vague, I would say.? Add to that the fact that the holes in the plate may not line up exactly where you think the BOF-CRS mark should be, and you may be out another 0.5 cm.? It's basically an approximation -- I didn't fret too much about it.? Thankfully, moving the binding around on the plate is easy enough, so if a position doesn't feel right, it can always be moved.? On my previous skis, I moved the Railflex back and forth several times to see what differences I felt, and finally settled on the +15 mark as my preferred spot (easier to do on an RF binding, though).? At some point this winter I will try moving my bindings back by 1 cm just to see how it feels....who knows, I may prefer it...every ski is different.

Quote
Thank your wife for her excellent ski analysis.? Very well written, who would have thought that a Viking could be so adept and succinct with the English language.
Jim, such sarcasm! You're well acquainted with my linguistic abilities (or lack thereof, at times!), but Mrs. V is often my equal, especially with a withering remark.? She can slay a man at twenty paces with a quickly written barb. Careful what you say about her, otherwise I'll let her loose here, and may even set her up with her own account....and then you'll be sorry!? :'(? And besides, it's me who's the Viking....my wife is a Canadian through and through (but no less formidable? 8) ;D)

Gary, Gary....fast girls? prison jumpsuits? Are they somehow connected? And what's with this:
Quote
....the 3 of us got re-acquainted and it was love at first turn
Which three? You and who else? What were their names? How old were they? Did their parents know? I'm not quoting you out of context, I trust (that never happens here ?::))

And hey! What's this? Ooooh....Aaaah....S omething magic just happened.? I graduated to be a Senior Member here! Hit 200 posts, and presto! I'm suddenly a senior citizen.? Yippee! This means I'm eligible for free lift tickets and senior's discounts at the Skier's Pharmacy & Denture Clinic at Whistler.? Preferred accident insurance rates, and a free walker at the hospital in Solitude, Utah, where old skiers go to retire.? Hey, life is grand as a Senior!? Can't wait 'til I'm a Global Superhero, though, when I get my youth back and get to wear a one-piece spandex suit (but not orange - that colour is taken  ;D).
« Last Edit: January 12, 2009, 09:37:23 pm by Svend »

jim-ratliff

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A thought on finding the BOF mark.? Try standing in your binding in bare feet with the heel piece closed (as if the boot were clamped down).? If you center your foot between the bindings then you should have a pretty good feel for where your foot would be in the boot.

Try it and let me know how close an approximation that is.

The method to find the center of running surface (according to Peter Keelty) is to press the bases of the skis together and measure from the point where the bases touch in the front to the same point in the back.? (Center of Running Surface is that part of the ski in touch with the snow when the ski is flat?)
« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 08:30:28 am by jim-ratliff »
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Svend

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Well, I wish I knew that before I started fussing with tapping an empty boot shell.  Good one Jim.  It certainly would be more accurate than how I did it. 

Finding the CRS mark was, as you said, easy and can be done with reasonable accuracy - to within +/- 1 mm I would guess.  I did exactly as you said, and if I remember, it was you who originally told me how to do it.

Perry

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A thought on finding the BOF mark.? Try standing in your binding in bare feet with the heel piece closed (as if the boot were clamped down).? If you center your foot between the bindings then you should have a pretty good feel for where your foot would be in the boot.

Try it and let me know how close an approximation that is.

The method to find the center of running surface (according to Peter Keelty) is to press the bases of the skis together and measure from the point where the bases touch in the front to the same point in the back.? (Center of Running Surface is that part of the ski in touch with the snow when the ski is flat?)

Jim and Svend - good comments and agreed.? Much of my previous post was just making fun of my "anal" qualities as Freud would say.? Now I know that this will encourage input from our other forum members. >:D

I have done the Keely method but have found that it pretty much ends up in the same place as my method, and mine is faster/easier.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 08:30:39 am by jim-ratliff »

jim-ratliff

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Jim and Svend - good comments and agreed.? Much of my previous post was just making fun of my "anal" qualities as Freud would say.? Now I know that this will encourage input from our other forum members. >:D

It encourages input from other members because no one else would understand or identify with people spending this much time trying to figure out where the ball of their foot is inside a hard plastic boot, or what difference it could possibly make.  And who could possibly be so anal as to think that there was a better place to position the boot than where the factory marks say you should.  ==>  Guilty, your honor, I guess I am at least as Anal as Perry (and I think there are a few other guilty parties on the forum as well). ;D

Now we just have to wait until Gary gets us back to sheep and horses.   :o  :o
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Svend

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Guilty party no. 3, here! Perry, I sympathize -- I suffer from the same anal-retentive (that is supposed to be hyphenated, isn't it?) personality.? Poor Jim has been so patient with all my fussing over the details.? Perhaps that's why I love this sport -- there are lots of details to fuss over!

Speaking of men with sheep, has anyone seen the classic Woody Allen film with the scene with Daisy the sheep and Gene Wilder as the doctor? Not saying it has relevance here....just asking that's all.... ::) ::) ::) (insert smilie for casual, innocent whistling)
« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 10:22:46 am by Svend »

Perry

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Svend - a classic movie.  I like the seen where all the sperm are lined up like paratroopers getting ready to jump.

speaking of which, I am now a full member ;D  I only have three stars though.  Pop the cork, light the cigar.