Real Skiers subscription site and this forum

[jim-ratliff]

I have had a couple of conversations with Peter regarding his plans for his site, especially since he seemed to indicate that he had a large number of new members register last year (and I shared my thoughts on why that might be).
Things that might happen.

1. Peter is checking to see if Go-Daddy can host and provide the same level of SMF maintenance that I get here.  SMFNEW currently does all the version upgrades and patches for free (AdSense reveneue), getting new versions and maintenance was the biggest problem of the old forum.

2. Anyone that registers for the subscription site would be encouraged to register (or automatically get) an account in this gear forum.  With some level of support, this could happen even if the site doesn't move to GoDaddy.

3. The forum would still be open to guests read only.  Only members can post.  Opening up the content to guests was a change we made when we migrated from the 7 year old version.  This would also mean that we would continue to be sensitive to not posting RealSkiers subscription information (such as ski reviews) here.

4. I believe all current participant accounts should be retained, whether you are a member of the Real Skiers subscription site or not.  Last spring he just wanted the gear forum to go away (so we did); now he's considering re-integrating it to his site.  That's because of us.

5. Peter would love to have more user posted ski reviews, since that is the core of his subscription site, and especially in the early rise/rocker categories (Bushwacka, HighAngles, Liam?)  That probably would mean that moderators should be better about moving ski reviews out of the general board if that is where they get created and into the ski review board (but that could happen after most of the discussion dies down)

6. If the site gets moved to GoDaddy, then the Google AdSense "sponsors" section at the top would go away.  I'm almost sad about that, they've not been intrusive, they add a bit of color to the screens, and I've actually clicked on a couple. 

7. If anyone has ski plans for Salt Lake City, ski a bit with Peter and give him your thoughts about the Gear forum.

8. As with anything, we often have plans to do more than what we actually get done.  We'll see what happens.

Thoughts or comments?


 

[jim-ratliff]

If the new forum becomes members only for posting then you greatly limit user generated content. I used to be a realskiers subscriber but stopped because too many of the reviews don't match my own.

I agree, and an excellent point (Items 3 and 5 may oppose each other). The people most likely to generate user ski reviews may well be the people that don't feel a need (or derive value) from his ski review site, but the presence of those reviews may well be able to drive new registrants to the subscription site.

Another approach might be to retain this site as is and just have Peter include a link on his site that points here.

[beastieboy]

Hi Jim,

My early response to this has something to do with free milk and cows.  Basically, why would you pay for something that you can get for free.  Epic has much of this information available, and you can PM the author if you have any questions that weren't covered in the review.  I guess if the only POV that you are interested in is, for example, how skis perform using PTMS technique then this would work, but you would have to substantially limit the ski reviewers who are allowed to post.  No problem if Peter doesn't want me to get ski review info here.  I would think though that another business model would be to generate ad revenue by hilighting ski reviews.  Of course, journalistic integrity would be suspect...

Without much thought, that is my $0.02.

[jim-ratliff]

A couple of clarifications about your $.02 worth.

1. Peter isn't concerned about reviews posted by users to this site and in fact would like to have more of them. However he does have a lot of ski review information for a large cross section of skis, with a pretty consistent rating and exaltation scheme. It is this information that he makes available on his subscription site that he wants to protect.  His business model is subscription as opposed to selling advertising. (and to your journalistic integrity point).


So Max's point is that the people that are capable of providing good ski reviews may be people, as you say that don't need his site for ski advice.  And, people that are subscribers may not create good ski reviews.  But there may still be some synergy of the free reviews leading people to want more information and becoming subscribers. (I am still a subscriber and the last three skis I've purchased have been facilitated by his reviews. And one of those was a three year old ski that I bought for $100 new and has been great.)

2. There is another forum that focuses on skis that work well with PMTS. That's not the intent here; other than the members who follow that technical approach who post here. Many others have a broader view of skis and technique. Bushwacka, Liam, and High Angles are in this group. Gary had a number of PMTS camps, but has been learning from John Clendenin recently and many have benefitted from that.



-- Note: By the way, I am not really associated with RealSkiers (or PMTS or Epic). I enjoyed the people here but the older version had become a mess from neglect, so I volunteered to be an administrator and try to clean it up some.  Both Epic and PMTS have their own business models and management directions, and while I respect their right to determine the directions of their sites, they are like oil and water. I enjoy the comments of people that are in both camps, and don't see a reason why we have to be in either camp.

[LivingProof]

Jim,
My take of Peter's business case is that he sells reviews of '11-'12 season skis based on demo'ing done the previous spring. Who in this forum had access to those skis to provide timely input? What has changed that now makes the collective few posting here more attractive? Just guessing that he would like to grow via mimicking Epic by attracting a larger audience with real reviews of skis available on the market, so that "google" type searches regarding performance of a specific ski bring people to this site.

A past lesson learned is that he does not come to closure quickly. We have not been able to get traction to grow. It's been put forth that the .smfnew format is invisible in 'net searches. So, if growth of this forum is desired, and I think it is, then a future affiliation change may be beneficial, assuming there are no fees involved for our members.

In very many ways, you are the driver of the bus as it's your skills that keep all this bonded together. Keep the communication lines open with Peter to see where it goes, and, I'd love to get to SLC to ski with him, especially if he likes Alta.

 

[midwif]

Hi Jim,

My early response to this has something to do with free milk and cows.  Basically, why would you pay for something that you can get for free.  Epic has much of this information available, and you can PM the author if you have any questions that weren't covered in the review.  I guess if the only POV that you are interested in is, for example, how skis perform using PTMS technique then this would work, but you would have to substantially limit the ski reviewers who are allowed to post.  No problem if Peter doesn't want me to get ski review info here.  I would think though that another business model would be to generate ad revenue by hilighting ski reviews.  Of course, journalistic integrity would be suspect...

Without much thought, that is my $0.02.

Beastieboy et al


THIS IS THE NEUTRAL ZONE!!!

Klingons and Romulans welcome as as long each others peculiarites are treated civilly.

I am not sure why so many epic posters assume Peter's site is PMTS based.
RealSkiers is its own entity.
It does link to Clendenin and HH's forums as dedicated "technique" sites for those interested.
It also lists Epic and many other ski sites as area of interests.

All are welcome here, except maybe for Phil. He just dissed this forum on Epic.
I'm in a banning mood. My finger is on the button, hovering, hovering. OOOhhh, the POWER!!!

Lynn

[meput]

Jim, you have done a great job at allowing oil and water to co-exist on this site. Both epic and PMTS forums do not want opposing views (very easy to get banned on both sites).

RealSkiers subscription site has a niche that no other website, forum, etc fills. Peter's ski reviews tell it like it is, according to his reviewers, whether you are a pivoter or a tipper.  It also identifies which camp a ski is good for.

A RealSkiers forum (us) allows followers of either camp to discuss gear (skis) and technique in a civil fashion (without getting banned as long as you/we are civil). As long as we do not cut/paste Peter's proprietary reviews, hopefully Peter can continue to support and recommend us. If we post a paraphrase of a ski review, hopefully that will interest a forum reader to subscribe to see the full review and other reviews (ie the benefit to Peter).

Lynn, ignore Phil. If he is dissing us, that is PR for this site. Interested readers may want to see what Phil is dissing and give us a look. They may like what they see and join in. At least here, most skiers can understand what we are talking about. Over on Epic, I get too confused by the range terminology and what exactly it means.

I have been impressed with the smf advertising. It has been subtle and appropriate for the site. I too have occasionally clicked on an add when it looks interesting. My only complaint re: smf has been the occasional slow response/download times.

Hopefully Peter will look on us fondly and put a link back on his site to the "RealSkiers Forum" (us  )

Jim 2

[jim-ratliff]

Thank you, Jim.
Jim

[jbotti]

I will post more reviews in the Review section as I try skis this season. I enjoy writing the reviews anyway so it will be fun.

[jim-ratliff]

There is now a link on the Realskiers subscription site labeled "realskiers forum" that brings people here.

[Gary]

Since my membership goes back a few years...I've always enjoyed the reviews and have taken them for what they are worth...someone I don't know skiing a ski I've never tried. I take that information into consideration for my demo list or as part of gathering info from other sources like guys I've skied with, Dawg, mags...and then I'd pull the trigger.I appreciate all the effort Peter puts into his reports and how the list of skis tested has really grown.

What I do enjoy about our site is we always maintain civility .....that's important to me...where guys no matter what level or what experience can share their stories without feeling abused or be-littled.

What others say about this site only matters if you let it....I know that all who post here have a great passion and a sense of boundaries and respect...that all works for me. If that is ever missing...I'm out of here!

Nice to see you can connect from the RS site to his forum....much needed...

AND thank you Jim for all your efforts to keep things going.
G

[meput]

Great to see that Peter has put a link to this forum back on the subscription site. For a while it felt like we were a bastard child: we have the RealSkiers name, but not the parent recognition. With the link on the paid site, I guess we will now have to behave ourselves, play nice and honor the subscription site  . At least my subscription is up to date.

Once again, kudos to Jim.

meput

[beastieboy]

Hi Lynn,

No disrespect or un-civility intended.  Just trying to give honest feedback to subject for which feedback was requested.  And, for all involved, I don't consider myself either Klingon or Romulan.  Maybe a Vulcan with a dry sense of humor probably crossing the line into sarcasm. 

On the subject of being banned - I'm reminded to Groucho Marx's response when he was asked to join a certain club.  "Why would I want to join a club that would have me as a member? 

I'm happy to be here.  Forgive me if I've made a newbie bumble.  I do have to admit that I'm scratching my head a little bit on the question of why outsiders would think the site has something to do with PTMS.  Hmmm.  Well, there have been an awful lot of posts proclaiming that there is no true other way to ski.  Could have something to do with that.

Oh well - back to work.

John

[midwif]

Beastie Boy

None taken.
Just having some fun.

And I think you misunderstood me. I can understand some folks thinking THIS forum is "pmts light".

It seems that quite a few folks elsewhere place Peter's RealSkiers  site in the PMTS camp.
His site is it's own entity.

And again, welcome. I love Spock's dry sense of humor.
 

L.

[Gary]

Hmmm....I wonder who has their thumb on the "Folton torpedo's"..

AND Beastie....I hope you've come to see that there are many here who respect all forms of wedge turns....fat skis and skinng ones!!!!

It's a blessing and a curse!

Now ...beam me up Lynn...my work here is done!