For those interested in PMTS technique....

[midwif]

Geoffda has posted a funny and wonderful recounting of the first couple of days of "Tech Camp 2011" on the PMTS forum. Entertaining and informative.
Worth a read.
He did a day by day recounting last year at the All Mtn Camp that was also an incredible view of what and how they worked on ski skills.

ToddW is attending right now, so hope to hear from him too.
Lynn

[LivingProof]

I've been following the thread. Geoff is a talented writer.....he can say things, in jest, about Harald and get away with it.....most would be banned.

I want to go through his review and capture the technical drill progression with the intent of using same with my early season skiing. ToddW sent me, several seasons ago, a MS word document about how Diana worked on his for / aft balance. It's all about basics and basics and more basics. I did buy a hula-hoop this summer, now, I just need the .......(fill in the blank) to actually take it out on the slopes.

I am so jealous that people are skiing in Summit County. Will be 60's this weekend.

[jbotti]

To be honest I have trouble reading a multi page thesis even if it is on how to improve with PMTS. I have to agree with Max, as I have continued to progress, I know (or have been told by Harld and Diana) what drills I need to master and work to improve. This is not to say that there aren't drills away from these that I can get value from, but if we are talking the fastest way to make the biggest difference in my skiing, I know what those drills are and those are the ones I wantt to spend more of my time on. At a ceratin point having an almost singular focus is good.

[Liam]

I have to say, that I like the way Harald has organized his camp season--the idea of a 'short turns' clinic for stronger skiers to gain technique at the very start of the season is a briliant approach. 

I'm sure a lot of attendees will see a real boost in their skiing for he whole season from this.

No doubt about that fact that the man knows his coaching and ski instruction.

I see that everyone at the camp is really high on those dodge boots....but like carbon fibre bikes, I'll wait until the technology-cost paradigm shifts in my favor.  (wasn't that long ago, a CF road bike was a 6000.00 minimum, and only Kestrel and Calfee made them,--and what's funny, is today's 2000.00 carbon fibre is superior in everyway to those early efforts).  I see a pair of Carbon Fiber boots about 5 years in my future.

[LivingProof]

So the drill progresion that Geoff is following may not be the best for someone else.

Max and JB,

Just offering a counterpoint, there is no substitute for getting real instruction.

The progression Geoff describes is Harald's instruction plan for the class. If Harald planned it, it should be gold for his followers. On the first morning they are going back to the very basics of PMTS which is the progression known as the Phantom Move incorporating tipping and free foot pull back, then, going into some fore aft balance. Can you think of a better place to start following 8 months off skis?

It's just too easy, and probably wrong, to assume the basics are built into my movement patterns.

[jbotti]

There is value in all the drills that Harald uses. Having said that in a private lesson he may not be giving me the same drills that he is giving Geoffda. Camps are great and the progression is valuable for all and there is individual instruction at camps as well and some of this Geoff is writing about. When one leaves a camp usually the skier has very good idea of what specifically he or she needs to work on and which drills should be the focus drills. And clearly sometimes as one essential impoves it starts to highlight the fact that another essential was accpetable at your prior level of skiing but is insufficient at the current level, so some new drills are in order.

If we were in argument (which we are not), I think we would say we are both right.

[jbotti]

I see that everyone at the camp is really high on those dodge boots....but like carbon fibre bikes, I'll wait until the technology-cost paradigm shifts in my favor.  (wasn't that long ago, a CF road bike was a 6000.00 minimum, and only Kestrel and Calfee made them,--and what's funny, is today's 2000.00 carbon fibre is superior in everyway to those early efforts).  I see a pair of Carbon Fiber boots about 5 years in my future.

I think the CF Boot phenomenon is on its way. Word is that Atomic is close to having a CF boot for the WC guys soon. I think you will see many atomic skiers on it next season. Evidently the demand on WC circuit is strong with many wanting a CF boot and because of contracts no one can ski the Dodge.

I hope that Dodge does not just get credit for the CF direction and then disappear because no one licensed their tech and the big guys all found a way around their patents. Unfortunatley this is what usually happens and the Dodge guys have been very lenient on letting anyone and everyone see and demo their boots, which means that Head, Atomic, Nordica and Lange all have seen the boot and can easily copy it.

As for us consumers, I do think that the 2nd and 3rd generation boots will be better and cheaper. The Dodge has its share of issues (hard to get on and off unless you use their liner which I don't like, it leaks but this is easily fixed with a rubber shim and a few other issues that the masses won't deal with), but it is a rocking boot when it comes to skiing it!!

I also look forward to future generations of CF boots. My guess is that it's 2-3 seasons away before the big guys will be slling them to the public. Dodge will likely hae a 2nd gen before then. It's all good from our perspective.

So here's a question for someone that might know, is CF that much more expensive than plastic? My guess is that with volume they will get the price point on CF boots to $1000 which isn't much more than what you pay for a top of the line plug these days.

[bushwacka]

The thing I like most about potential carbon fiber boots is that they could in theory make a boot that is stiffer laterally than anything on the market while still having enough fore and aft flex so the boot can be skied off trail great. That would be my perfect boot.

[meput]

Back to the original topic: "For those interested in PMTS technique...." .

Geoffda's current camp report is very good. His original camp report is an absolute classic. Grab yourself a brew, sit back and enjoy the read:  http://www.pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2653&p=26961&hilit=+superblue#p26961

As jbotti and max have said, the movements and drills are appropriate for the camp group and may not be beneficial for anyone outside of that group. Reading the thread gives a feel for the PMTS camp experience.

As for the discussion of CF boots, fore/aft flex and theoretic benefits, maybe one of the moderator types can set that up as a separate thread 

[bushwacka]

same reason why carbon bike manufactures make their bikes have vertical compliance. Its easier to absorb shock AND stay in balance when your ankle can actually move.

For people used to race boot switching to cabrio boot is something that is not going come naturally as most people muscles simply are not strong enough to deal with the force so alot of people give it up.  I ski in both though, my cabrios come out for most of my skiing but I use plugs when running gates.

but once you can control your ankles you can absorb shock alot quicker as well being able to actually jump.



 

[Liam]

Bush,

I know a number of guys who rave about the cabrio designs, but I haven't used one.  I'm getting a new boot in a week, should I look at these..what one are you skiing?  A good friend is all over the Dalbello Krypton Pro and another will use the Full Tilt this season.

Just wondering because they weren't on my radar.

[HeluvaSkier]

Max and JB are right. When it comes to progressions, drills, whatever - knowing where you are and where you are going is important. A drill tailored to another skier may help gain insight but without knowing first what you need it is only a way to gain insight. Fwiw I rarely pay attention to what other skiers are working on unless I'm coaching them because it is distracting.

On boots... Advantage of the dodge is likely due to the stiffness to weight ratio as opposed to the superior material. I do think that once refined this is the future.

[seskelson]

HI , first time post on this forum.  Long time contributor to the PMTS forum.  On the Krypton or Full Tilt.  Short answer:  don't.  I was previously a mountian rep for my local area (I"m a patroller) for Dalbello.  I had the Krypton Pro.  I skied it.  Kept it only one season.  As Harld H. notes on the PMTS forum, it is a knee steering type boot.  Look for his posts on these.  Not really for PMTS type movements.  Ditto on the Full Tilt.    Dalbello makes some excellent overlap boots in their new Scorpion line.  Look at those.  Or Head or some Nordicas in the Doberman line. (they have a new cabrio design too  I don't know anything about it other than based on the design alone I'd hesitate.)  Full disclosure:  I am now the Head rep. for my area.  For excellent source on Head boots look at levelninesports.com - if they have your size..

[LivingProof]

Seskelton,

Welcome to the Real Skiers forum. I hope you continue to post and it's great to have the views of an industry insider associated with Head. Do you rep their skis? Many here lament the apparent demise of the Supershape line. My SS's were repaired last season from some delanimation, and, I just hope they hold up through this season.

It's almost strange that skiers over-think and obsess about skis while boots are almost considered step-children. I use a rigid PMTS semi-approved Nordica Speedmachine, Harald sold them for a while I believe. I've never tried a "rotary" boot such the Dalbelo 3 buckle designs. It's interesting that some who used to post here and were Dalbello advocates have now transitioned to laterally, rigid boots. Liam's interest is somewhat of a surprise, but, I do admit that I'd like to demo and get the actual experience.

Again, feel free to keep posting. As a group, tolerance and intelligent discussion are valued - they are, perhaps, the only guidelines.

[Liam]

Actually,

I have a pair of Scorpion SF110's waiting my foot at the shop for cooking in intuition liners (I had to wait on getting these since they aren't standard on the 110).

I asked about the Full Tilt's and Kryptons (and I suppose I could throw in the new Nordica Fire Arrow boots) because just as the performance of people I have skied with got me broadening my appreciation for newer designed skis, I have a few ski buddies and learned types who just love those cabrio designs.

Liam